Job Discussion Forums

[daveryan]

Once again, thanks for all earlier advice and info. It has been of great help so far and on the whole I am reassured to know that there is such a cool crew, operating in Turkey. Those of you who read my first post will be aware that the whole business of TEFL is a leap into the unknown for me, albeit one that I am determined to take. To this I must add that for a whole variety of reasons Turkey is my inevitable destination and I can assure you that I fully intend to join you in the New Year.

I re-emphasise this from my earlier post in order to reassure you all that your great and impending efforts on my behalf will not be in vain. Put simply, what I need is an idiot proof guide, either by post, e-mail, telephone or pigeon, as to how to find myself some sort of teaching job by February at the latest. Although I would prefer working with kids, my priority is getting there, biting the bullet so to speak, and am therefore willing to consider any position with a reasonable wage.

Fortunately a number of old and great rock stars have taken to the road this year and this has provided me with the wherewithal to make an exploratory trip to Turkey in early January. At this point of course I would hope to ply you with vast quantities of alcohol in gratitude for your patience and kindness..........but in the meantime

1. I receieved an e-mail the other day in response to a question I had posed on another web-site. In short I was advised to avoid all private K-12 schools as they were nearly all fronts for the Turkish Mafia and problems were inevitable. Having spent some time in Turkey I am to some extent aware of the unorthodoxies in the Turkish business system. But is this an issue that I need to be wary of?

2. Cheers for the list of K-12 schools, if I send speculative letters along with my CV. should I write in Turkish? (via a transalator)

3. Is it usual to send copies of references, certificates etc with initial applications. For that matter should I send my CV or just a spec letter?

Well that's all I can think of for now although I suspect that you will be hearing from me again in the near future.

Thanks
Dave

[yaramaz]

1. I receieved an e-mail the other day in response to a question I had posed on another web-site. In short I was advised to avoid all private K-12 schools as they were nearly all fronts for the Turkish Mafia and problems were inevitable. Having spent some time in Turkey I am to some extent aware of the unorthodoxies in the Turkish business system. But is this an issue that I need to be wary of?


I work for one alleged branch of the mafia. No problems yet. They pay on time, pay well, provide a free flat with utilities, give great holidaysand summer pay. I'm happy with my lot.


2. Cheers for the list of K-12 schools, if I send speculative letters along with my CV. should I write in Turkish? (via a transalator)

No, send it to the English department. If they can't read an EnglishCV they shouldnt be allowed to teach English in the first place.

3. Is it usual to send copies of references, certificates etc with initial applications. For that matter should I send my CV or just a spec letter?

Send a CV anda letter, see what happens.

O, and by the way, I will reply to your PM-- things are just a bit hectic right now and I've not been able to sit down and write anything comprehensive.

[ghost]

The advantages of k-12 schools are the decent pay and holidays and the fact that you have weekends off. The disadvantage of the k-12 schools is the frequent poor quality behaviour of the students. Many of them are lazy and do not take the lessons seriously. Also there is a tendency for Turkish students not to take 'yabanci' teachers seriously, creating nightmarish classroom management situations. When you are dealing with lazy, spoilt kids on a daily basis it creates stress for the teacher. Many of the teachers I know resort to alcohol and other things to relieve the stress. The noise level in my classes is so bad, for example, that I wear ear plugs to class. I cannot tolerate the frequent surprise screams and other noises that come from the students.

If you can teach 'academic classes' in the Lycee with students who have been pre-selected by an exam, the work would be a lot easier and more pleasant, but those are prize jobs that are not given to everyone.

In language schools it is nice to teach adults because they are usually motivated to learn and hence your job is a lot easier and more pleasant. The disadvantage of language schools is the relatively low pay in many, short holidays and working weekends with only one day off in the week.

The best gigs are probably in the Universities but those jobs are harder to obtain.

In short if you have poor tolerance for unruly student behaviour you should avoid working in the k-12's.

[yaramaz]

I am teaching in the Lise this year and o god it is a breeze compared to last year in Primary. Last year my chest ached from speaking at a level the kids could hear above their roar. I no longer feel like crying before or after lessons. My kids this year seem dedicated and sweet and hard working. Last year i felt like no matter what i did it was irrelevant.

[gelin]

I taught high school for seven years in Ankara and now am on my third year in Istanbul in the middle school at private K-12 schools. I must say that middle school is a breeze. My kids listen, talk when they are supposed to talk and not much more. I expect them to be that way and they are. Unfortunately, my classes are the exceptions. Guess I just got lucky. Hope you all get some relief.

[FGT]

Following Ghost's comments about languge schools would just like to add that teaching adults is definitely interesting, fun and rewarding. Class sizes are small and classes are made up of students at the same level so teaching English is the priority, rather than discipline as with most kids' and university classes.

Reputable language schools usually give 2 consecutive days off (though not necessarily at weekends).
The pay isn't bad - probably between $1k and $2k a month depending on location, experience and teaching hours. This is usually paid in local currency which, during the last academic year, was preferable to dollars but this year, who knows.
There is usually free accommodation or subsidised rent.

[ghost]

FGT mentions discipline being a requirement for University classes in Turkey.

If students of University age need to be disciplined in Turkey then it is really a sad situation because people of that age should know better.

Turkish lack of discipline is manifested everywhere. I notice it especially in the Internet cafe's where you see a bunch of adolescents and men in the 15-25 age group spending hours playing those stupid fighting games (oyun) on the Internet. They also smoke in there, scream at each other and engage in other inappropriate behaviour. I have been in Internet cafes throughout Europe including countries with relatively similar economics (Czech Republic) and never do you witness the appalling behaviour and lack of respect in those other countries that you see in Turkey.

The teachers in the Primary section of the Koleji I am at agree that they are not really teachers but rather class managers, and entertainers. They are unable to 'teach' in the classic mode because to teach would require a relationship based on the model of the students actually wanting to learn and hungry for foreign language knowledge. Most of the students do not fall into that category. The stress is high and you basically have to prostitute yourself to earn your pay cheque.

[FGT]

Re Ghost (again) - hey is this something supernatural or what?

Can anyone out there who teaches in a university say, hand on heart, that discipline is NOT a problem?
Attendance? Homework? Use of L1? Willingness to learn?
Never (yet) taught in that environment but if I'm missing a whole new group of eager beavers I'd like to be put right.

[daveryan]

Thanks all for the various info. The general concensus seems to be that teaching kids in Turkey is hard work but financially rewarding....however I would like to clarify some of the more negative comments (Ghost in particular). Are these children simply annoying and emotionally taxing or are they dangerous? ie I can probably handle the irritation factor but am not that keen on getting punched.

On a more general note I am not sure that I would agree with comments regarding the indiscipline in Turkish society....my own experience in Turkey has been different albeit with no teaching involved. Internet cafes in Turkey can be rather hectic but not so when compared to your average British pub or bar, and it is arguable that they perform the same social function for young men in Turkey as do pubs over here.

Thanks all for now

Dave

[yaramaz]

I don't think I find Turkey quite as hectic or insane as Ghost does, but maybe I've been here too long. But then again, I've also lived in several parts of Africa and in the lunacy of London so I'm not one to comment...
As for the kids, they are Mostly Harmless. What we realised last year is that this is very much a parent child society, psychologically speaking. This manifests itself in many forms-- both in the obvious (ma and pa have authority over child) but also in school with teachers and students, in society with government and citizen, etc. Someone always has strong authority over the other. This has the effect that, for example, in schools the teachers dominate the children with absolute behavioral control. The kids can behave when they are told to do so by someone they see as an authority figure. Their inner behavior controls simply don't seem to exist. They havent been taught to regulate their own behavior. This means that when you are a foreigner- thus not recognisable as authority- you really have no power over them and they are very unlikely to voluntarily behave for you. They aren't mean, though a few kids are really disturbed- kickers and biters etc. They are kids after all. The thing that is disturbing though, is their struggle to undermine any dignity or authority that you thought you may have had. They are often lazy, they scream randomly, they run from the room at the end of the lesson as though it were a prison break, you often have to force them to even open their notebooks if they even actually brought them... It seems like they want to be told what to do and exactly how to do it every step of the way. Their problem solving skills are minimal and their creativity is severely lacking.

But they are not, I repeat not dangerous. Kids in central London were scarier. I used to work for the social services in Hammersmith and Fulham and these guys here are naive, innocent, boistrerous, often mindless... but aside from the fact that they are realllllllly hard to teach, they are fairly harmless.

By the way, my kids in the lise are a joy to behold so I know all is not lost. They are Turkish kids--- teenagers even---... but they behave! They study! They have notebooks and pens and their textbooks... Aaaaaaaaaaaah!

[Anitata]

Its my second week teaching at one of the richest k-12 koleji here in Istanbul. The term stared from last Monday (14th of the Sep) and due to the working visa paper application that I was not able to come here earlier. I arrived in this amazing city on Sunday (the 13th) and started to teach on the 14th. Teaching was not a new thing to me since I am a qualified teacher and has been managing ESL Programs for three years. However, I was very shocked by the noises/ bad manners in the classroom here...Their English ability is really low...and they are not interested in learning. I am trying all my best to make them interested in what am I teaching and İ found playing some ESL games are pretty helpful. Luckily, all the other teachers at school are wonderful..and supportive. The headmaster of the school is really nice and understandable......I am pretty happy here. I had a pretty good lesson with my grade 8 students today. I have them gıve me a presentation of the football (soccer) teams here in Istanbul. And the students are really interested in the topic. I believe things will be better soon. Once I got used to the noises and learn some Turkish. (so I know what they are talking about me in fornt of my face). Cheers and good luck to everyone. As a new comer to Turkey. I think this an amazing city (besides the traffic)...good luck everyone and all the best.

[ghost]

It is true that the kids take advantage of us 'yabancis' but even Turkish teachers of English who are not classroom regular teachers have it tougher than their Turkish counterparts who teach a regular class. And this is similar to the situation faced by teachers of FSL in Canada who have to deal with very unruly behaviour.

Turkish kids are not mean maybe, but the silly childish behaviour displayed day after day is extremely annoying and taxing. You simply cannot give them an inch. In my classes everything needs to be busy, busy or else they jump off the walls. I teach grades 4 and 5.

[yaramaz]

I understand what you mean, ghost. The little blighters can certainly wear you down. Last year my chest ached from speaking to be heard above the constant din... Phil Spector could use them as a great Wall of Sound, because one never really knows who is making the noise but it sure is there. I found that everything was rushed-- if you took your time with anything (ie stopped to explain the instructions, paused to ask thoughtful questions, etc) they would just lose it. And when Turkish kids lose it, it's hard to bring them back.

Did I mention how much I love my kids this year? Gawd, I could just weep... they work, they listen, they actually sit still most of the time! I'm not sure why my kids are so pleasing... but I have noted that the few disruptive ones are the ones who are either not academically streamed into the secondary English program (the ones who want to eventually write the English uni entrance exams) OR who came directly from the Primary section as opposed to coming in from a state school after writing tough qualifying exams. The state school kids are much better behaved than those who were allowed to run wild in the mindless primary section of this private school...

[daveryan]

It sounds great, roll on January. Having just spoken to my mother, I'm afraid I have yet another question to ask you all regarding health insurance....Do the schools pay it, would I pay some sort of National Insurance contribution entitling me to public health care or should I start checking out private cover?

In the meanwhile it is miserable and cold in Manchester...I envy you all

Cheers
Dave

[ghost]

If you have the required qualifications to teach in Turkey (Bachelor of Education) you will get a work visa stamped into your passport which mentions the word 'calismak' (work). Then you will go to an office in Turkey which will give you a residents passport booklet with your photo in it. If you have all of this it means that your employer is legally obliged to cover you for health, just as other Turks will be covered.

By the way we have some Dutch teachers of English in our Koleji who have had their work visas denied because they were missing formal teaching qualifications. The Department that deals with all of this in Ankara is now told to process the papers of people who trained as teachers and have the B.Ed. or Post Graduate Diploma in Teaching (one year following the B.A.). Other people who have those one week to one month 'Teach and Travel' Certificates will no longer be allowed to teach here. Backpacking teachers will have to look elsewhere because schools who employ them would face heavy fines.