Job Discussion Forums

[John Hall]

I am beginning to get the feeling that learning English is more important for Costa Rica than for any other country in Latin America right now, especially with the recent vote by referendum which approved CAFTA-DR (the free trade agreement with the U.S.). Check out this article in the Costa Rican Spanish-language daily La Nacion about the lack of qualified job applicants for jobs that require English:

http://www.nacion.com/ln_ee/2007/septiembre/15/economia1240751.html

How about it? Is there a greater per capita need for English in Costa Rica than in any other country of Latin America at present? Let the debate begin...

[Guy Courchesne]

I'd argue that Mexico would have been the first to need English, for geography and history. NAFTA came about here in '94, and much of the economy is export driven, as well as tourism and outsourced manufacturing. As Mexico continues to transform itself into a first-world service economy, you'll see the need for English continue to grow.

[John Hall]

But is Mexico attempting to "Puertoricanize" itself, by making English the language of the workplace, as well as something that all Mexican university students need to proficient in? Something like that seems to be happening here in C.R.

[Guy Courchesne]

Pretty much, though not everywhere in Mexico. The resorts on both coasts have long been Anglicized, and many industries in Mexico have an English requirement for workers. That wouldn't be true in the primary sector, or on factory floors I imagine though.

I guess you would see the effects of policy shift show up more quickly and more strongly in a smaller country like CR. 4 million people, no, and not as much variety in industry?

[john_n_carolina]

...you might be right -- Costa Rica, 2700 sq mi, population - 4.3 mil

Mexico -- 758,000 sq mi, 108 million people.

i think you might be right, ...if you're going by per capita, i can't think of any others that would put such a strong emphasis.

Argentina might be close, but it's huge -- the size of Western Europe.

plus, CR has always been a good friend of the US, as many people go there for medical operations, fishing, etc. how many people have plastic surgery in Bogota??

[John Hall]

Right, I was thinking of it on a per capita basis.

I should have remembered Acapulco though; when I was there in 2000, all the menus really were trilingual (English, Spanish, and French). There are even some people here in Costa Rica now saying that having two languages is not enough! Language institutes are now teaching French, Mandarin, and Portuguese as well!

[Phil_K]

I think that is something I've perceived in Mexico, too. In the upper echelons of business many people seem to have good English. When many executives ask for classes, they are just for having a chance to speak English regularly. I definitely think if you can add a third language, you have a competitive advantage in the jobs market.

[john_n_carolina]

John Hall, how is the English at the Elementary level?? just apple, orange, truck, etc...or the kids in general can speak a little?? (like Japan / Korea)

[MELEE]

There will always be a difference between perceptions and realities.
English continues to be a very very useful skill in Mexico. Our graduates report being passed over for promotions if they don't have English. They personally precieve that Mexicans from the north speak better English and had an easier job of learning it, maybe, maybe not. But they tell stories of young co-workers from the north with no university degree but the ablity to speak English getting the jobs and promotions. English is definately an advantage for university graduates in Mexico. But for every job where English is a requirement, there are hundreds where it's not. 10 years ago the use of Spanish on the internet was minium, now, you can find the everything on the internet in Spanish. DVDs mean that you can now watch movies dubbed rather than hear the English with Spanish subtitles on a VHS. More and more video games and electronic childrens toys are speaking Spanish. There is now rap, heavy metal and jazz in Spanish. In some sphere the amount of English exposure is decreasing as Spanish is on the rise.

[John Hall]

[john_n_carolina]

....that's what i figured. it's generally the same throughout all L.America. i thought CR might be a little better, but i suppose not. i feel sorry for them actually. ability to speak English is your passport to freedom, if you can pass the TOEFL.

we had this same discussion a while back, about Cuba. from all my current sources, Cuban friends / co-teachers here, the situation is basically the same. im not sure many kids in L.America have a burning desire to learn English anymore. they want to be like Paris Hilton, 50 cent, Eminem, Bryan Adams, etc. i think they feel a sense of hopelessness. they know they'll never make it to greener shores.

this is what my wife has been telling also, about Ecuador. her nephew right now is #1 in his class of 400 at highschool, and can't speak past basic English.

isn't there a univ in CR that is affiliated with the US? that has accredited courses?? i thought i remember seeing that...

[Guy Courchesne]

Mexico only recently mandated English instruction in public schools down to grade 1...at something like 4 hours per week. Implementing policy is taking longer than issuing a decree though.

Melee, I was going to comment about the rise of Spanish, particularly in the US. I find it interesting that some call center jobs are being outsourced to Mexico...but not the type where the support staff speak English. You're now seeing the market in the US react to a growing Latino population that is being served in Spanish.

[Phil_K]

[john_n_carolina]

[MELEE]

There are a hundreds of reasons why English should not become a requirement in the primary schools. An option yes, a requirement no.

Having taught in Japan, and currently working with a teacher who just arrived from 10 years in the Japanese public school systems, I think you are overestimating the amount of English the majority of Japanese children learn in primary school.

At primary school you could do an immersion program, or a partial immersion program and produce either excellent (full immersion) or acceptable (partial immersion) speakers after 6 years of schooling. But both of those types of programs take a lot of resources and a community could easily decide that they do not have the resources or the priority to offer that kind of education in its public schools. So what are the alternatives? In a foriegn language program that is 5 or less hours a week the goal should NOT be to produce fluent speakers because that is an unrealistic goal. But that doesn't mean that the program can't have some very good reachable goals. When I taught 3 to 12 year-olds in Japan, the main goal of the program was to give the children a good feeling about the language. We wanted them to like English, and see language learning as fun. So that when they got to middle school they wouldn't hate it. Secondary goals were; to expose them to native speaker pronunciation and try to get them to produce the sounds that are in English, that are not in their native language. To give them a chance to meet a foriegner up close and in person so that they were not afraid of foriegners (a very Japanesey goal). To expose them to the alphabet and the ideas of a phonetic system. (This is also not as relevant in a Spanish speaking country). To open their eyes to the world outside of Japan--this was mostly through crafts and snacks around foriegn holiday themed units.

I don't feel that the Mexican public schools have adequate resources to have this kind of program so instead of producing students who like English, the idea of learning languages, primed to be more successful in the subject when they enter secondary schools, I'm afraid they will producing more students who hate the subject, believe that they can't learn the language, and have learned a little bit of it very poorly ("I hava ache years.") then we currently have.