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boundforsaudi · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 243

Americans have been advised to leave Saudi. How many ESL teachers are leaving?

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I think you have it wrong. The State Department have stated that dependants of US govt personnel based in Saudi Arabia have permission to leave. This means in effect that if they do leave Uncle Sam picks up the tab.

If the State Dept did not make that decision then govt employees would have to pay for the tickets themselves. This is how bureacrats look after their own.

I do not see a large exodus. However this is the end of a holiday peiod here. We may see that some teachers do not return.

Do not believe everything you read !

johnslat

Dear boundforSaudi,
I don't know of any EFL teacher that's left - or is plannng to leave. Which, of course, doesn't mean that there aren't some. But there's certainly no sense of " panic " among the people I know here in Riyadh. An element of wishful thinking may enter into this, but, having been here for Gulf War I, I suspect that we'll be even less affected by the coming events than we were back then. Where are you headed for in the Kingdom? If you're going to the Western Province ( e.g. Jeddah ), there would be, I'd say, even less cause for concern.
Regards,
John

QuickSilver · Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 15

Hi BoundforSaudi,

Just to set the record straight, you're right. Americans have been advised by the State Department through the US embassy/Riyadh Warden Message (#4) to consider leaving.

Here's an exerpt from the message:

This Travel Warning is being issued to alert Americans to increased security concerns in Saudi Arabia and to the fact that the Department of State has authorized the departure of family members of employees of the U.S. Embassy and Consulates on a voluntary basis. Private American citizens currently in Saudi Arabia should evaluate rigorously their own security situations and should consider departing, especially given decreased flight availability at a time of high demand related to school holidays and the Hajj.

You can read the entire text at the US embassy/Riyadh website.

Hope this helps in your decision.

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

Well to me it ain't so clear :
"to consider leaving"

is not the same as
"to leave"

Funny how some people have problems reading.

As someone who is in Saudi during the Gulf War I can say it is much calmer now. Some people are panicking but the nervous nellies are long gone.

QuickSilver · Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 15

Albulbul,

What's the point of a statement like "Funny how some people have problems reading"?

Some people have a problem accepting any information that clashes with their personal views. You seem awfully defensive about life in Saudi.

In addition to "nervous nellies" there are also ostriches with their heads in the sand, and there's certainly enough of it there to hide their heads in!

What do you think about the Brit who had his car riddled with bullets on a street in Riyadh recently? (Re: Warden Message #6)

winston · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 9 Location: London

I went to the US Embassy in Riyahd and can't find the travel advisory you're referring to. I did, however, find something stating that the "overall security situation remains unchanged"
here's the link
http://usembassy.state.gov/riyadh/wwwhsecu.html

But it may be that that advisory was indeed published and then retracted later as if it never even existed.

Kinda like when things just disappear from this forum.

QuickSilver · Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 15

Here's the URL for the Warden Messages. There are 9 so far for this year.

http://usembassy.state.gov/riyadh/wwwhscwm.html

johnslat · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:36 am Post subject:

Regarding the American embassy and the " warden messages ", I have to admit that I have a very jaundiced view of such matters. The messages are, in my opinion, strictly CYA ( i.e. Cover Your A** ); how many have we had in the past year giving us the exact same, essentially useless, advice: " keep a low profile and vary your routes to work ". Everyone that I know here ( including the wardens ) regards then as a joke. Plus,
in the last Gulf War, the American embassy was the very last one in town to hand out gas masks. Even the Irish embassy did so before the Americans ( although I feel pretty darn sure everyone out at the embassy had a gas mask a long time before the rest of us ). It was only after many people here communicated with their representatives in Congress that the embassy ( reluctantly ) distributed them. Finally, when I was in Shiraz, Iran in 1978/79, the consul staff there packed up and left without notifying any of us who had registered with them. After no communication and many unanswered phone calls, we finally went there only to discover the place had been locked up and everyone was gone. So, when you get a " message " from such people, I'd say - consider the source. There are no guarantees about the future; however, I feel at least as safe here in Riyadh as I would in, say, New York City. And to the best of my knowledge, there is no exodus of Americans going on. In fact, everybody's just coming BACK from the Hajj holiday. So, if you are " boundforsaudi ", I think you'll be OK. Just remember to keep a low profile and vary your routes to work - oh, and you might want to pack your own gas mask ( a little humor there ).
Regards,
John

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

Quicksilver says that I am "very defensive about Saudi". Well maybe Saudi needs some defense from all the unfounded stereotyping that goes on. Is quicksilver in Saudi ? Or in Tel Aviv ?

winston · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 9 Location: London

What I find funny is that the alert level for the US is Orange (Feb13). Orange is jsut one level below red, I believe.

So I guess I'd better not return to the US becasue the US state department has a warning out against that country.

QuickSilver · Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 15

AMAZING! When facts are revealed that prove Boundforsaudi was right, that Americans have been advised to consider (that's right, Albulbul, I can read) leaving Saudi Arabia, the "Spinners" go into high PRF!

I agree that most of the "advice" that has come from the embassy in the past has been worthless from a security standpoint. But that wasn't the point. The fact is that Americans have been advised to consider leaving, and that's incontrovertible.

Spin it any way you want to fit your mold. But I challenge each of the Spinners to stick with facts rather than spin.

No one has responded to fact that the British citizen's car was riddled with bullets in Riyadh recently...why?

What's the point of comparing the level of safety in the US vs Saudi Arabia? There are few countries on earth that are "safe" anymore. The US gov't has advised against Americans traveling to the US?? Spin out of control!

johnslat · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:45 pm Post subject: Who's spinning whom?

Dear Quicksiver,
Where are you coming from - both literally and figuratively? I'm IN Riyadh and here's my work e-mail to prove it:

[email protected]

So, where are you? Yes, that Brit was shot at ( and boy, they must have been pretty lousy shots to have tried 5 or 6 times and missed ). As you noted - there ARE no " safe places " anywhere. I just got an e-mail from my Significant Other in Norman, Oklahoma. She was just " accosted " in the " urban wilderness area " there ( fortunately, she - and our dog - chased the guy off ). Riyadh's as safe as, probably a lot safer than, any other big city. If you ARE in the Kingdom, do you get a kick out of " pushing the panic button ", trying to make people back home think you're braving all sorts of great hazards? Because there's nothing going on here, and if you're here, you know that. If you're not here, then do everyone a favor and stop being silly. No spin required.
Regards.
John

QuickSilver · Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 15

What is so "silly" about sharing the information in the Warden Messages? They're available for all to see (who care to).

Not once have I given my opinion about security in Saudi Arabia. Not once. Your accusations, johnslat, are unfounded. You know that. Nor have I even implied that the US is safe. On what do you base your accusations?

Rest assured I'll continue to provide information when someone inquires, as Boundforsaudi did. If that information doesn't paint a favorable picture, don't hold ME accountable for it. I'll weather any unfounded criticism from anyone. Go for it!

It's AMAZING that I've shown that the facts support Boundforsaudi's statement, and that scot47 was simply incorrect, and yet that's ignored. Please tell me how you came to the conclusion that I push the panic button. There's no way you could. Exactly HOW am I being silly?

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

Come on Mr Mercury. Answer the challenge from john in Riyadh. Where EXACTLY are you ? In KSA ? I doubt it.