Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Save the Apostrophe

For those who are interested in joining, may I introduce you to the "The Apostrophe Protection Society" (APS for short), whose mission in life is to safeguard an endangered species (of punctuation.)

"The Apostrophe Protection Society was started in 2001 by John Richards, now its Chairman, with the specific aim of preserving the correct use of this currently much abused punctuation mark in all forms of text written in the English language."

Yes, fellow posters, apostrophe abuse is rampant, the "hidden sin" of society (or perhaps I should write "societys hidden sin" - tee hee.)

So, fellow apostrophe-lovers, please go to the site below to join in the good fight (or you can also send your donations directly to me.)

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

Regards,
John

007 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject:

Dear John

I am not an English teacher, but I want to ask you this:

Can we conclude that the use of Apostrophes is different from American English to British or Australian English?

What about if I want to remember the day of my mother, shall I use mother's day (American use) or mothers' day (British use)! So, which one is correct, and why?

BTW, Uncle Sam, G.W.B, used the word mother's day in hi speech in 2001! Laughing

Thanks GOD we do not have this problem of Apostrophes in our lovely Arabic language.

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: A Mother of a question

Dear 007,
What an interesting question. I'd never thought of it before, but it IS an issue:

"Choice 1. Mothers Day with no apostrophe
The argument here is that mothers do not own the day, so no
possession is involved; thus, no apostrophe is needed. We are
describing a day *for* mothers, not a day belonging to a
particular mother or mothers.

Choice 2. Mother's Day with an apostrophe before the s
Here the argument is that the day belongs to one specific mother
(yours presumably). So, because possession is involved, "Mother's
Day" needs an apostrophe before the "s".

Choice 3. Mothers' Day with an apostrophe after the s
Here the argument is that the day belongs to all mothers
collectively; thus, we need an apostrophe after the "s".

And the winner is?

Well, let me stress that you can make a reasonable case for all
three of the choices, so it comes down to whether you think that
ownership is involved or not.
In British English there is an increasing tendency to omit
apostrophes when "for" is implied rather than "of" or "belonging
to".
An increasing number of editors of British English publications
are thus opting for choice one (no apostrophe) arguing that
Mothers Day is a day *for* mothers, not a day belonging to
mothers.
US usage, though, seems most commonly to include an apostrophe
before the "s".
Having said this, there is a great deal of inconsistency about
the issue, and you will certainly continue to see all three forms
in use regardless of where you live."

http://www.betterwritingskills.com/newsletters/2007-06.txt

Being from the USA, I'd probably go with "Mother's Day" since most of us have only one mother.
Regards,
John

007 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: A Mother of a question

johnslat

Dear 007,
Indeed - we mustn't forget dear old Dad.

However, we must also remember the adage:

"It is a wise child that knows its own father."

Regards,
John

flutterbayou · Joined: 01 Apr 2006 Posts: 244

Whoa! But then according to Wikipedia, the United Nations declared Children's Day with THE apostrophe, which means we can now stop blaming any particular nation for it's use without possession... or isn't every day children's day, possession taken for granted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Day

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

...but....but... children is already plural, so wouldn't it have to be children's? There is no such word as "childrens" so we couldn't put it at the end.

VS

(the interesting thing about the apostrophe problem to me is that although there are way too many people who seem to use it at random, even with those of us who know the rules, our fingers when typing seem to put them in at random... and our brain tends to ignore the mistakes in our own posts while immediately jumping on the people who don't catch them. Laughing

I'm quite a fast typist and every single time I key in the letter i-t-s, there will be an apostrophe as my brain has seemed to choose that as the default...)

007 · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Hunt and Pecker

Dear 007,
I'm not fast at all - in fact, some have said I'm only half-fast.

Regards,
John

lotsa · Joined: 21 Mar 2007 Posts: 68 Location: Oman

huntjuliehunt · Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 87

What's ares you's guys's talking's about's in this thread? I'ms getting's readies to goe's and teaching's English over's in Oman's. I'ms American's but my dad's isn't.

flutterbayou · Joined: 01 Apr 2006 Posts: 244

johnslat · Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:13 am Post subject:

Dear flutterbayou,
AAARRGGGHHHH!!! Not the dreaded 1980's, please. Even The New York Times, after decades of stubborn contrariness, finally writes it as 1980s.

"Previously, I reported that although the most common way to make an acronym or initialism plural is to add an s to the end, there was one notable holdout: The New York Times, which insisted on using an apostrophe to make acronyms, dates, and initialisms plural. Well, I'm thrilled to report that just a few weeks ago, The New York Times changed its style and will no longer use apostrophes to make acronyms, dates, and initialisms plural! So I now feel more confident than ever advising you to make initialisms and acronyms plural by simply adding an s to the end."

Regards,
John

007 · Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:50 am Post subject:

To 'Grammatical' people:

Please, do not complicate life for the Gulf students, do not teach them how to use the Apostrophes, just teach them how to write their names and the names of their fathers and mothers (I hope this one is correct!) �. Laughing

Thank you for your co-operation.

007

Geronimo · Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 498

I just carried out a little research - ( 3 minutes' worth) - into the application of the apostrophe in response to OO7's thought-provoking question....
I yahooed "Mother's Day" and "Mothers' Day" on the UK's yahoo! homepage to discover the number of hits for each: firstly on a global basis; and then on a UK websites-only basis. The results are as follows:-

Global basis:- "Mother's Day" = 88,300,000 "Mothers' Day" = 35,200,000

UK-only basis:- "Mother's Day" = 5,700,000 "Mothers' Day" = 5,220,000.

Next I tried "Martin Luther King's Day" v. "Martin Luther King Day" . The former obtained 68,900; and the latter resulted in a much more sizeable score of 26,200,000 hits. Is that because the King is dead (Long live the King!) and therefore can't be perceived as 'owning' the day himself?