Job Discussion Forums

[maruss]

How about starting a separate heading for these countries?Does anyone have any info. or job experiences to report?I heard that inflation is very high in Latvia and that e.f.l. jobs there pay very badly,just like the 'Maconalds' firms in Moscow?Estonia apparently has the most westernised system of government and public services but as all three are in the E.U. persons from other member states don't have visa problems to face like they do in Russia etc.

[Kootvela]

Lithuania is being advised on in General Europe forum under appropriate heading.

[George1983]

Hi Maruss,

I was in Riga, Latvia for most of November 2007 on holiday and made a point of asking about TEFL work. There is a demand for native speakers and yes, visas are simpler now thanks to EU membership. BUT...Riga at least has been hit hard by joining the EU. Prices have skyrocketed while wages have not. (Think living in Moscow on Siberian village money and you have the idea.) That's obviously an exaggeration, but it would be very hard to make any savings there. The city itself and what little I saw of the surrounding countryside are beautiful though. Oh, and if you speak Russian, prepare to be annoyed that everything is written in Latvian, bearing little resemblance, even though everyone can speak Russian!!

Anyone thinking of just one year, happy living like a student or GAP year type could probably have a lot of fun. Much harder for a longer stint IMO.

just 2 cents.

[maruss]

If the number of people who are working abroad from these countries is anything to go by,it's an indicator that the cost of living there is very high in relation to wages!For example,I met Lithuanians in England who were quite prepared to pick vegetables for 250 pounds per week,saying that this is several times what they can earn at home,even in professional jobs!Most of them of course aim to save money and then return home but often end up staying long term.In Poland by contrast the government is now trying to lure people to go home again as it is facing a severe shortage of labour,and has increased wages.This seems to have had some effect as a number of Poles in Britain have started leaving.

[George1983]

I don't know if you saw the recent Michael Palin series, New Europe. It was quite enlightening on the views of some people in the East of Europe and tallied with what I heard when I was there.
I'm British and everyone here worried about workers coming here from Poland, the Baltics and the other new countries, taking the jobs, keeping wages down. Over there everyone worried that Westerners would come over buying up land and property, pushing up prices!

As it is, both are happening to some extent, and most people take little notice of the plight of the other side...
-You can't blame me for keeping wages down in Britain, they're really high anyway
-You can't blame me for pushing up house prices in Poland, they're really low anyway

and so on...

And as you say, they are both only temporary. Easterners intending to save for 6 months or a year then go home loaded, while Westerners are buying holiday homes not emmigrating, both oblivious to the fact that the more people doing this, it may as well be permanent.

just another 2 cents.

[jonniboy]

Regarding Latvia, I did hear some hearsay in the past that put the cost of living relative to wages as one of the highest in the world. Capitalism is still in its early stages here and a lot of business owners still have this outlandish idea that if you want to increase profits by 50% you only need to bump your prices up by 50%. Things like improving the products or services provided or encouraging customer loyalty don't seem to have occurred to them. Customer service is truly dismal and has only got worse as many of the best people fled abroad.

Here I would say that a teacher could earn somewhere between 1000 and 1400 euro per month, privates are very easy to come by and there is a shortage of native speakers. For a language centre, 10 euros an hour would be the starting rate but you could definitely try and negotiate that up.

As for Latvian, if you know Russian then it is a help when learning it as although Latvian isn't a Slavic language, a lot of words have been borrowed from those. It's a bit like English/Spanish similarities.

But otherwise the economic situation here is such that I would urge caution before coming. High inflation, high prices, an exodus of the most talented people and a possible collapse in the housing market. The near future doesn't look good.

[kazachka]

I was in Riga 2 weeks ago for the marathon. I loved the nice break and the fact that there was much less pollution. Prices there are pretty much comparable to Europe though. The lat is worth about the equivalent of the GBP!

[teacherus]

Well, I know of International House, Riga. How are things there now? Anyone there?

[jonniboy]

Well I'm still here but I seem to be the only regular poster and I'm off in a few weeks time and really don't know if I'll be back in the Autumn. The Summer slump set in last week. I was doing 32-34 clock hours regularly until then but last week only 28, this week 23 and for the last two weeks, it will be 18 and then 12 hours respectively as most of my groups are finishing now for the Summer. As for the rest the inflation rate has hit 17% but most people reckon that's because the price of luxury items has stayed the same so for ordinary goods it's nearer to 30%

[teacherus]

Yeah, it would be nice to head up there, Riga's a great place. Being in the EU, it'a also much easier to work in that Russia.

Prices, well, I agree, they're going up everywhere, I'm afraid. not only in Latvia, also in Russia, Ukraine and elsewhere, I'd imagine

[maruss]

Despite joining the E.U. etc. it seems old habits die hard there and if you ask many people they will tell you that they have seen few benefits since they joined and complain about the downside such as inflation and the ever widening gap between the lucky rich minority and the rest of the population.....Estonia has probably fared best,probably because they have made intensive efforts to root-out corruption and reform the economic and social structure(which has infuriated Putin and his regime in Moscow!!).In Latvia many of the people from the old communist system still have high positions and the power and influence that goes with it,even though they pose under different titles and the situation in Lithuania is ditto!!
There are Russian minorities in all the Baltic countries who have faced widespread discrimination since they became independent with Estonia being probably the worst example and for which it recently received a lot of criticism from the outside world,although the situation has improved and is better in the other two countries for them nowadays.With the increasing development of relations between countries such as Germany and Russia,the Baltic States feel very vulnerable,knowing that Moscow has never really accepted losing their influence over them and people quite rightly wonder what would happen if there was another crisis between Russia and the West!!Anyone who studies their history during the 20th century will quickly understand why!!!
They are great places to visit and a whole world away from countries such as Russia and Belarus.It's just a pity that the high cost of living there makes it difficult to survive on the kind of salaries most teaching jobs pay,but remember most of the locals fare far worse!!

[Kootvela]

[maruss]

All E.U. States are supposed to offer equal treatment to all of their citizens,regardless of their ethnic origin or cultural or language differences etc.On the other hand I fully understand what Ele is trying to say because the situation in the Baltic States is very delicate with Russian speaking people and it is a fact that many of them are descendants of people who were sent there in the Stalinist era to colonise the territory while the rightful inhabitants were often repressed,deported and even executed!
Of course people who were born in the Baltic States have every right nowadays to be considered citizens and in return should abide by the laws of those countries.It is also a fact that the demonstrations in Tallinn recently following a government decision to re-locate a Soviet era Russian war memorial,were at least encouraged,if not instigated by Moscow and the Kremlin,using 'Nashi' an ultra- nationalist youth organisation which has official government backing in Russia(although its future is apparently now being re-considered) and Ele is quite rightly objecting to people who subvert other countries for whatever reason.
I understand her sensitivities because we have a similar situation here in Cyprus where Turkey has sent thousands of people over to colonise the north since they occupied it in 1974.They now outnumber the indigenous Turkish Cypriot population and this is one of the thorny issues which has to be dealt with in the negotiations for a solution to the political problem here.Although there are instances where mainlanders have married locals and are integrated in to the local community,as a general rule the two do not mix due to vast cultural and social differences and traditions.Most Turkish Cypriots hope they will leave,especially if they are given financial incentives to return home as part of a solution.Although the Greek-Cypriots are prepared to accept a figure of around 50.000 remaining on humanitarian grounds out of the estimated 200.000 who are now here as a result of Ankaras deliberate policy of changing the demographic population in the north(Baltic style!)it is still a very contentious subject that will be hard to compromise on!
It would also be very interesting to hear what Moscow has to say about the way it indiscriminately treats people of Chechen origin who live in Moscow and other parts of Russia and who are not 'terrorists' but often just simple people who are poor and decent,yet have been marginalised and subject to hassles and even hatred by the authorities and even ordinary Russians because of their ethnic origin!!The late Anna Politkovskaya discussed this issue with me when I met her in early 2006 and said it is one of many skeletons in Russias closet!

[jonniboy]

To update, today I received a pretty good offer for the coming year. 1500 euro per month net (the company will pay the tax on top of that) which will be a salary and an ongoing contract, therefore no need to worry about summertime slumps, with overtime paid in the event that I do more than 40 academic hours (which I doubt will happen) and a free flat (I pay the bills.) It's a pretty good offer for the Baltic states - I've been fishing around for work in Barcelona and I'd struggle to match it as a newbie there. There certainly are possiblilities here but I'd say you'd need to be in it for the long haul in order to maximise your income possibilities.

[Kootvela]

Congratulations on that! Sure, being a newbie (despite your experience elsewhere) cannot match up to a tested employee, if I can say so. Don't spend it all at once