Job Discussion Forums

redsoxfan · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia

Is anyone working on a full-time contract, particularly in Warsaw? I have always worked on an umowa o dzielo--by the hour, basically. In other words, the school was not responsible for paying my ZUS, taxes, getting visas, etc. I'll be heading back to Poland in June to look for work starting in September, and it seems pretty plain to me that, at this point, given Schengen regs, I'll have to be on a full-time contract.

I'd rather not do this because:

1) it limits my autonomy. For ex, if the school says I have to take a class on Friday evening, I can't really say no.
2) it seems to pay less per hour. Then again, you still get paid for a full month even if you only work two weeks, which is quite common.

My question: what should I be looking for in terms of pay and hours? I think I'd like to teach in-company classes. Never thought I'd say that, but I've been in Azerbaijan for the past year doing just that, and I rather like the independence. How about signing a contract for 20/hr a week, but picking up another 10 on my own? I figure that I could swing some higher paying gigs tax-free...just need the contract for the damn paperwork. I gather the going rate for exp teachers in Warsaw is about 45-50 zl/teaching hour (45 min)...but I'm more interested in how this pans out in the final contract. I don't want housing or any nonsense like that included in the contract. Keep the school out of my private life, that's what I say Smile

Harry from NWE · Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 283

Very simply, you are not going to get a full-time contract from any school in Warsaw. Or at least you aren't going to get one worth taking. If they have to pay full tax and ZUS, that's just going to come out of your pay packet. If they have to guarantee you a certain number of hours every month, they're going to balance that risk by lowering your hourly rate.

They are also going to realise that the vast majority of the holidays (for which they're going to need to pay you) come in the first half of the contract, which means they need to back-end load the contract to prevent you from taking the holidays and then leaving halfway through the contract. But if they do offer you a bonus and then decide not to pay it, you've got a real fight to get it from them.

As you don't actually want a full-time contract anyway, why not just set yourself up as a one-person company? As far as I can tell it makes no diffrerence to Schengen regs whether you have a full-time contract or own your own company.

redsoxfan · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia

Anything you know about setting up a one-man company would be appreciated. To best of my knowledge, non-EU citizens have to form some kind of partnership with a Pole. As far as I understand, a full-time contract is necessary for me to get a karta pobytu, which EU citizens don't need. This is why, as a non-EU citizen, I must have a full-time contract. I would be happy to be wrong on this point.

Any non-EU citizens working legally without a full-time contract?

Richfilth · Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 225 Location: Warszawa

A couple of us EU citizens have Karta Pobytus as well, from the grand old days when Polish bureaucrats didn't know the regulations. No, wait, it's still like that.

Back when I (mistakenly) applied for mine, 2005, the employer who contracted me umowa-o-dzialo just wrote a statement saying that I was employed for the indefinite future. If you're working for a school now, ask them for a similar statement and try it down at the office on ul. Dluga - if it fails it's only cost you 30zl and a wasted afternoon.

Failing that, there are a few people on this board who run themselves as one-man shows. Im sure they'll rear their heads to offer you some advice.

simon_porter00 · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 505 Location: Warsaw, Poland

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=61758&highlight=

Have a read through the above thread, half way down (posted below) i detail the procedure in a rough way. I can't add anything further to it i'm afraid as beaurocracy in Poland is best forgotten as quickly as possible.

"Setting up a business wasn't too challenging.
First of all you'll have to register yourself where you plan on living (this involves a bit of effort being from out of the EU, I'm English, so i'm guessing it's going to be easier for me than for you. The other Yanks on here will be able to advise you about this).
Then apply for a NIP number at the tax office (takes up to 4 weeks)
You fill out a simple form to get registered as a business, in Warsaw this was in the town offices (5 min to fill out the form, 3 days to get the registration document)
Then you have to run around getting your REGON number (30 min - the office is of course at the other end of town in Warsaw)
Then with all these details you have to go to ZUS (which is at the other end of town) to sort out payments that you'll make every month.
You then have to go to the tax office again to 'upgrade' your NIP or some such telling them you're a business concern, write a letter to them if you want to pay a flat tax rate of 19% and that if you wish you want to pay tax quaterly."

Some of this, however, may be in the wrong order - i did it a few months ago. It involves a bit of queueing, running around town and some patience but isn't too challenging. Or, you can sit down with one of your in-laws and get them to run through it all with you.

We're in the process of going through our own tax stuff now, it's a pain in the backside doing it yourself and its well worth coughing up 200 odd zlots a month to let an accountant do it for you."

scottie1113 · Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 375 Location: Gdansk

redsoxfan, are you from the US? If so, time is going to be a major factor as you can only stay in a Schengen zone country for 90 days unless you have a residency card. This is going to require some planning on your part but maybe we can help with some suggestions. When do you plan to come to Poland?

redsoxfan · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia

Thanks for your replies.

I've got a NIP number because I co-ran a biz a couple years ago. I'm aware of the 90 day thing; the problem here is somewhat compounded for me as I'll be in Krakow for two weeks to do a couple courses, then back to the States...but I should theoretically be able (in Aug/Sept) to rent a flat, get my zameldowanie (registration), get the REGON number and finalise the process. That's the best case scenario. Other scenarios include a myriad of potential blips in the process, about a thousand of which I've experienced first hand running a biz in Poland (which cost me thousands upon thousands of dollars).

Still, none of this means anything unless non-EU citizens are simply allowed to march into Poland, set up a biz, get a residence card and live there. I'm not in the least bit convinced that this is possible. I was told a couple years ago that the only way I could set up a biz was to register it as a spolka komandytowa with a Pole and pay lots of ZUS for each of us (~800 zl/month each), as well as huge accounting fees (~900 zl/month). This is what we did.

I understand that setting up a biz (sole proprietorship?) for UK citizens may be the best way to go, but I would really like to hear from any non-EU folks who have done this. Anyone?

YakTamer · Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 86 Location: Warszawa, Polska

Simon, I've sent you a PM.

Harry from NWE · Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 283

redsoxfan · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia

Right, but that guy is married to Pole, and therefore has his residence card already. I would expect that a guy married to a Pole, living in Poland, would be able to open a biz.

dynow · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1080

redsoxfan,

do it the same way you did it last time. get your NIP, REGON, zameldowania, etc., and you'll have your KB.

i am well aware of the schengen regs, i've posted about it several times in the recent past, but it turns out that they are not enforcing it in Poland regarding residency cards (go figure). atleast not yet.

i wouldn't say this if I didn't see it for myself. not by me, but a co-worker. American guy, came here, took him forever to get himself on track, applied for the KB on day 88 of being in Poland, far beyond the 45 day stipulation they claim. in the end, it was BS because he just received his KB this week. he was 43 days over the time you are technically allowed to apply for a KB after crossing EU borders, and they didn't say a word. just put it through.

DISCLAIMER: To all others reading this who are wondering about this same issue, be aware that this guy's landlord, by some miracle, gave him zameldowania. The majority of all landlords in Poland will nothing short of laugh at you for requesting it for reasons that have been discussed long ago on this forum (unless of course you pay them off Wink

) . i requested Zamel. in my first apt., landlord said no way, and it resulted in the biggest headache of all time that i don't wish to even think about anymore. In addition, if this had happened post-schengen, i don't know what i would have done because i was able to cross borders to buy myself more time, which is impossible now with the new regs. if you do not get zameldowania, no Karta Pubytu.

you said you have a 2 week course in Poland, then back to 'mmmrrrica.........assuming you can find someplace that would guarantee you the zameldowania, you should be in.

redsoxfan · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia

The way I did it last time was to set up a partnership with a Pole, which, as I noted, required us to pay 3100 zl/month for ZUS plus accounting. (Still made more money than we would've teaching in schools, but the headache was just too much). I want to know how to set up a biz by myself, not with a Pole.

Good to know that they're not too worried about the 90 day limit. I rented three flats and got zameldowanie at each...just took the contract down the street, the woman typed up some info and stamped it. I know you had a real headache, but I still can't completely understand why. Couldn't you have just done it yourself? Anyway, getting my zameldowanie is least of my worries.

Still looking for a single non-EU citizen who has set up a biz (alone) without any previous rights to live/work in Poland.

dynow · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1080

i don't know if i understand you.

i am American, like you, and i have my KB. i have no partnerships with a pole. my american friend, he came here on a whim, got Zameldowania, has his KB. same situation as me.

where's your concern? why wouldn't you be able to do the same?

redsoxfan · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia

I don't get it. Did you register yourself as a company, or did you have a contract from a school?

sparks · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 632

I registered as a company but had a work visa from a school first. I think that if you just show up here without any papers it may be difficult to get your company paperwork done in time. You need NIP and PESEL to get it done--these you should get from a school you are working at. To start the company you need a place to live i.e. zameldowania. to get your karta pobytu you need the company. You also need to show that your company makes money to get the KB. So the steps would be 1) get the zameldowania 2) register your company 3) take your company papers to the foreigner's office and get your karta pobytu. This could take months depending on how diligent you are and how many weeks of your life you have to stand around in lines.