Job Discussion Forums

[ScottSommers]

Postings are starting to appear about teaching at universities in Taiwan. Most of what you will see will be negative. Some of them will be factually inaccurate, perhaps even based on heresy, rather than the authours personal experience teaching. The university teaching situation in Taiwan is complex and full of difficulties, but it is certainly not without hope.

Most positions for English teachers in Taiwan are offered by private universities. Some of these schools are quite poor and lack adequate resources to support classes. These schools are generally, but not exclusively, found outside Taipei. Many of these rural schools have never employed foreign teachers before, and, as a result, don't know how to manage them adequately.

Another problem is that of your employment status at the school. Teachers in Taiwan can be either staff or faculty teachers. Faculty teachers have been certified by the Ministry of Education (MOE) as qualified to teach in the ROC. While faculty conditions vary from school to school, contracts are generally based on the model that the Ministry uses to employ teachers in the national university system. Staff positions are usually filled with local instructors, and if you end up in one of these, you get what you get.

Many of the positions that you will see being called 'university teaching' are not faculty positions. Some of them are not even staff positions. Some universities use agents to find teachers for their classes. These would be the worst positions in terms of quality, support and compensation.

While you will hear talk that schools want PhDs, this is not completely correct -- a master's level degree is often sufficient for the positiosn available at private universities. To qualify for a full-time faculty position, you must be certified by the MOE. You must hold a master's level degree that was earned in residence at an accredited university. There are many high quality distance degrees available these days. Such degrees are not recognized by the Ministry of Education in Taiwan.

Your master's degree can be in any discipline to qualify for MOE certification, but don't let talk about how the subject of your study doesn't matter. It is a significant advantage to have an MA in TESOL, education or another related discipline when applying for positions.

There are many high quality schools that employ MA holders as full-time faculty. Some postings appear in the English newspapers. You can find others posted on ESLResearcher and the Chronicle of Higher Education. I continue to hold the belief that the best employer of foreign faculty in Taiwan is Ming Chuan (Minquan) University in Taipei. I am biased, of course, since that's where I teach. Other schools that employ foreign teachers are Kaohsiung (Gaoxiong) Medical University, Chung Tai University of Technology and Shih Chien University

[ScottSommers]

You can find more information about teaching at Taiwan universities on my Web site at
blogs.salon.com/0002422/

[Aristotle]

Are there any added benefits to working for a university compared to working for a Bushi Ban?
Seems to me the pay is lower, they are a lot more political and you get squat for benefits.
What gives?
A.

[ScottSommers]

I have written exhautively about this on my Weblog, Dave's ESL Cafe Job Information Journal and other forums for English teachers. As I stated in my initial posting, there are many types of jobs that fall under the title of "university teaching" in Taiwan. You can not even begin to compare a full-time faculty position with teaching in a bushiban. The MOE contract that private school full-time faculty positions are modelled on mandates maximum teaching hours. At my school, that's 14 hours a week. Attendance is not compulsory when classes are out. That results is 4 months of paid holidays. You can tell me what you think because you can find my school's contract on the Web at
http://www.mcu.edu.tw/department/app-lang/elcenter/english/elc/Info/frame.html
I have said before that I do not believe anyone who says they left a full-time faculty position to work in a bushban. Either they did not have a full-time faculty position or their contract was not not extended.

[Smooth Operator]

You have been doing a great job spreading the word about university teaching in Taiwan. Just a quick question: 54,000 a month? Does that include free housing? How much are the bonuses? That does sound a bit low. I get more than double that at a Japanese university...

[ScottSommers]

Sure, and you'll get even more at a university in Saudi Arabia. That's the way it works. I made made more working for a bushiban in Japan as well. I'm lost for what else to say.

Different schools have different deals for housing. Generally in Taipei and Kaohsiung, you won't get help with housing. Take a look at the link I provided. It'll give you answers to all these kinds of questions.

[Aristotle]

54,000 a month, minus taxes is a very low wage for somebody with a MA or PhD. You could flip burgers for that kind of money. They won't pay you for the first month or two. What the hell is that!
I had a job at a bushi ban a few years ago that paid me almost 100,000 a month, no taxes. They helped me find a place to live and a rental scooter. Contract completion bonus as well. They even offered to give me half months pay in advance to get me settled. Why would I take my MA to a university when the bushibans treat me like a human being. Add to that the idiots in the MOE won't accept my MA because it was non-traditional.
I understand that faculty positions generally are not available to foreigners with an MA.
I just don't see it Mr. Sommers, why do you?

[ScottSommers]

What a winner you are. You're simply the most amazing person I have ever seen post here.

Seriously, I'm happy for you. I'm glad that Taiwan has been able to deliver you the kind of life that eluded you back home. I would never defend how much we get paid, but your original post did address very different points. In fact, the benefits are amazing and the politics is nonexistant, unless you want to be part of it.

[Aristotle]

If what you say is true how do you explain so many complaints filed by English teachers employed by Universities on Taiwan? They nearly number as many in relation, to teachers in non government controlled institutions.
The fact that so many blatant violations of workers rights are being undertaken by government sanctioned institutions is even more alarming.
Has it ever occurred to you that by promoting employment at Universities on Taiwan you are encouraging these kinds of violations?
A.

[ScottSommers]

Much of your problem understanding the university situation here comes, I think, from your reliance on hearsay and rumour. I can't really blame you. Apparently you have never taught at a university in Taiwan, so it can't be expected that you could get information from any more other sources.

By far the largest employer of foreign teachers in Taiwan is Ming Chuan University. Currently, we have some 60 foreign teachers employed as full-time faculty members in the English Language Center. Several other departments also hire foreign teachers. Due to some administative changes, which included the addition of 4 new departments, MCU hired 18 new foreign teachers and some addition non-faculty instructional staff in the English Language Center. I am quite certain that this makes us the largest institution of this type in the world. It is also probable that this year we hired more foreign teachers than all the other universities in Taiwan combined.

Teaching at MCU is nothing like the terrible picture sometimes described on Dave's. The idea that the school would withhold our visa or not pay us on time is ridiculous. There's a lot of work to do at school, but there is no (and I mean absolutely not even 1) foreign instructor who has not got their full holidays. We just finished mid-term exams this week. I had to proctor for 2 out of 5 days. The other 3 days, I had no teaching or office hour responsibilities. I'll spend some of this weekend marking exams, but that's part of the job teaching post-secondary anywhere in the world. I posted the link to our contract in an earlier posting.

Some of the reason for the high standard of our working conditions can be attributed to the liberal attitude of our president, Dr. Chuan Lee, who has adopted internationalization as a school policy. Perhaps related to this is the fact that his special assistant, LeAnn Eyerman, acts as the chair of the English Language Center. LeAnn is an American. I don't know if there are other universities in Taiwan where foreign faculty hold influential positions, but that is certainly the case at MCU. I can say without a doubt that advancement and decision-making responsibility at MCU are only impeded by ability and desire, and it is simply inaccurate to say that even most university teaching jobs in Taiwan are bad.

It is a fact there is a large number of high quality teaching positions available at universities in Taiwan. It is a fact that qualified foreign English teachers are looking for these jobs. I think it's an important step in improving the general university employment situation here by assuring that interested teachers have the information they need to find the best jobs.

Anyone who wants more information about how to find positions like those I describe is welcome to write me at
[email protected]
[email protected]
Or you can try contacting me through my Website
www.blogs.salon.com/0002422

[Aristotle]

[ScottSommers]

Again you leave me with little to say. You seem to have much more knowledge about formal complaints against universities in Taiwan that I have. Do you know of any complaints against Ming Chuan University? I'd like to hear them if you do. In fact, I'd like to find out the details of these cases you refer to. Tell me how to obtain this information, and I will put the names of these schools on my Website. I will gladly tell everyone I know to avoid any school that has well-founded complaints from its teachers...

One thing I'd like to straighten you out on, is your belief that I am referring to a small minority of university employers. I suspect that many of the cases you hear from and who post on this Website (and others like it) are the minority. They are the ones who have unfortunately ended up in unprofessionalized and inexperienced schools. Such schools employ a small number of teachers over the year. I don't blame well-intentioned and highly motivated teachers who get poorly treated by unscrupulous employers for posting their experiences in public. I encourage publication of the names of bad employers at any level.

Taiwanese universities employ several hundred foreign professors at various ranks. There are foreign professors who hold the rank of full professor at national universities. There are foreign professors who have served as the chair of a department at leading private schools. I have read a lot of postings on the Web about Taiwanese universities as bad employers, and I have never seen the names of
Huafan University
http://www.hfu.edu.tw
or National Tsinghua University
http://www.nthu.edu.tw
or Tamkang University
http://www.tku.edu.tw
or National Taiwan University
http://www.ntu.edu.tw
or Soochow University
http://www.scu.edu.tw
or Fu-Jen Catholic University
http://www.fju.edu.tw
I pick these names because they are some of Taiwan's major employers of foreign professors and because I personally know people who teach there. All the foreign professors I know who work in such places have worked there for years. Many of them more than a decade.

I don't doubt that many of the newer schools that are now hiring foreign teachers as full-time and part-time teachers are very bad. I have interviewed with many of these, and they were awful. I suspect that your lack of personal experience with the university system here has left you with the feeling that the well-founded complaints you read about on the Internet represent the majority of schools. They simply don't.

Let me take this one step further. I am sure that almost all foreign faculty in Taiwan are unaware of the kind of complaints that you believe are the rule. I challenge you to join some of the professional English teacher�s organizations that are available here and to go and meet some of the people I am talking about. The English Teachers' Association of the ROC
www.eta.org.tw
just held their annual conference, so you won't be able to go there until next year to see what I mean. You could still join the organization though. There are other organizations of foreign researchers in Taiwan.

But as I said at the start, what more can I say? The only thing I can think of at this point is that I'd still like to know the names of these schools, so I can put them up on my Website.

[brian]

Scott, this is great stuff. Very informative and no doubt very accurate.

I think that the problem is that those who spend too much time on these message boards (and I have to include myself in this group of late), tend to develop a very negative opinion of schools and universities. The fact that the individuals who have had a positive experience here in Taiwan (the majority) don't post here, means that boards such as these are strongly biased towards negative experiences and heresay.

I recall reading a post warning about universities not too long ago. The postee seemed to be complaining about things such as number of hours and pay rates, which I assume that they would have been told about when they signed up. No doubt this individual had had a bad time at the university. I am sure that they wouldnt go to all the trouble of posting if they hadnt. The question is - Were the problems the result of the university or some other concerns such as culture shock or like? Your posts on the subject have certainly enabled me to see the light.

Aristotle constantly make reference to his extensive library of complaints but to date has failed to provide any proof that such info actually exists. He will no doubt claim that the info is 'confidential' and 'available for members only' which seems to be online babble for 'this info only exists in my head!' It is clear that Scott is out to set the record straight and provide genuine info on the subject of universities. He seems to be in a position whereby he can make a difference.

Aristotle I have a suggestion. I assume that the myriads of people who have contacted you with complaints about universities did so because they wanted the situation to improve. Why not forward to Scott's personal email address all of the info you have (without individuals names included). Scott can then let us all know that he has received this info and can verify that the content justifies the claims that you have been making all of these years - without disclosing a single detail in this forum. This would certainly vindicate you and most importantly of all - actually help the individuals that complained to you and have received 'no justice' to date. By all accounts it appears that Scott's the man!

[Aristotle]

The majority of complaints filed against schools and universities on Taiwan are public, filed on world wide message boards like this one.
The reason so many people feel the need to make these complaints public is because there is no way for formal complaints to be filed particularly against universities. No system of accountability means no corrections of improprieties or wrong doing on the part of educational institutions.
The so called Foreign Teacher Association is little more than another mouth piece of the Ministry of Education. They have consistently refused to assist foreign teachers in labor/contract disputes or anything else for that matter. However they have on several occasions come to the assistance of schools and universities in dealing with "troublesome teachers and instructors". The FTA has also been instrumental in assisting schools and institutions in getting questionable private medical insurance for foriegn staff so as to bypass national mandated NHIC regulations and blacklisting teachers.
The distinct lack of accountability is one of the most pressing problems Taiwan has to face. Taiwan's education system is where the most effectual change can take place. Unfortunately when professional well respected educators like yourself attempt to defend Taiwan's dysfunctional and corrupt education system, the problem gets worse.
Taiwan has a centralized higher education system. Teachers, instructors and professors are employed under the strict guidelines set down by the Ministry of Education. Distinguishing good Universities from bad ones does little in the way of correcting the problem when all universities follow the same guidelines dictated to them by the central goverment.
The list of complaints is seemingly endless. I will in future direct all complaints concerning universities to your email address as we here at SSETT have become inundated with non-member request for assistance.
For the record the most serious complaint I have seen concerning Ming Chuan University had to do with students only being allowed to apply for student loans from a single bank associated with the schools administration at unusually high interest rates.
A.

[ScottSommers]

Brian:

I can't say whether or not I am "the man", but my wife will attest to the fact I am "a" man.

Ironically, I understand the working conditions that Aristotle is writing about. Back in 2001, I was interviewed at the Jung Jeou University of Technology in Chang Hwa County. Not only were they clued out about the visa situation, when I asked them the teaching hours, they gave me numbers that during later conversation turned out to be incorrect. When I asked them about this discrepancy, their response was, "Do you want the job or not?" Kaohsiung Medical University (who were advertising again yesterday) did not have the faintest idea how to apply for my visa in 2001. The Chinese Cultural University sent me a sample contract that stated instructors in their Extension Education Program have 35 hours a week that include 20 teaching hours. The rest would be office hours, unless you ended up teaching more than your 20 hours. In that case the office hours would be reduced at a rate of 1 hour for 1 hour. This is why I did not include them on list of schools that I posted above. I understand that there are employers that are less than what they should be.

I also understand that there are employers who are as much as they should be. This doesn't mean that you won't have misunderstandings or conflicts. As you point out, there are cultural differences in how universities and workplaces are run here. None of this means that there aren't good places to teach and do research in Taiwan.

Aristotle:

That would be great of you to send to me anything you hear anything about bad working conditions. I would appreciate that very much.

I agree with you about the MOE. I think they are they are terrible, and if you have looked at my Website, I have frequently stated this. My opinion of them is public record, as well as my real name, where I work, and how to contact me. I think that much of what is wrong with Taiwan education (and Asian education in general) can be traced back to the centralization of educational policy in the MOE. As much as research is action, I have written widely about this. Ironically, the National Science Council funds me for this.

The complaints that I have seen on message boards like Dave�s rarely state the names of schools. I want to see more naming of schools. I want to see a formalized ranking of schools in terms of the quality of their English programs. I want to see such a list of schools in terms of their quality as employers. I want to see a professional organization for English teachers that actively supports teachers in creating a better working environment. My wish list is very long, and most of my wishes won�t make the MOE happy. I am on your side as far as this goes.

You refer to a �Foreign Teacher Association�. I am not familiar with this group. Perhaps you could tell me how to contact them. There is no Web address for such as organization in Taiwan. You have capitalized the name, but I can find no organization by this name anywhere in the world. We have no such organization at MCU, nor does anyone I know belong to such a group. Your description of them makes them sound like a powerful and formalized organization. I am surprised that they have such a low profile, but I would be very interested in becoming active in such an organization-if I can find it.

The truth is that I�d like to get more information out of you. You are constantly eluding to significant facts that you know about schools and people working here. That�s why I have continued this discussion as long as I have. My problem is that I have serious doubts about how much you know. Please tell me something important. I have yet to see from you a single name or fact or date or description of an identifiable incident that has any meaning. If you are going to continue to reply to my posts, please do me the courtesy of providing me with some real information.