Job Discussion Forums

[Kenny Kimchee]

I've had this burning question for a while: why do folks teach in China?

Each country in Asia has its own pros and cons:

Korea (I worked there for 18 months):
pros: great money, plentiful jobs, low cost of living, free apartment
cons: polluted, crowded, dirty, racist and xenophobic Koreans

Japan (I'm here now)
pros: friendly people, amazing culture, clean, well-organized
cons: expensive

Taiwan
pros: good money, flexibility
cons: crowded, polluted, dirty, high set-up costs, bad mannered folks

Thailand:
pros: nice, laidback lifestyle, girls, tropical climate
cons: no money

and so on.

But China?
pros: ?
cons: crowded, polluted, filled with greedy people with bad manners (spitting, anyone?) AND you don't make any money.

So, why China? What's good about it? If you liked the Chinese, why not go to Taiwan? If you can tolerate the conditions, why not go to Korea and make money, to boot?

I'm not taking the piss here. I'm serious. I look forward to your replies.

KK

[Roger]

You caught me on a bad day with your question, mate!

My boss had "bad luck" with one of his clients - they let her down, not telephoning to cancel today's lessons. All morning wasted. And the boss thinks she owes me no money because she isn't getting any from that client either. "It's not my fault..." she said. "But it's not my fault either, and it's unfair by the way that I have to go home hungry with no money in my wallet and no prospect for a change of things any time soon...why do you allow such clients to be your customers and to cheat you this way?" "They are not cheating me...they are my FRIENDS!..."
Intellectually a vegetable, my boss! Most Chinese bosses, in fact!

But, as a matter of fact, I came here when the country was less crowded with TEFL teachers, and at that time it was just more thrilling to be here. China was not at that time "just another country". It was really different not just as a place of work.
It's like saying "I like a gratin dauphinois better than MacDonald's french fries..."
How can you explain that? It's not the price that makes the difference - it's the texture, taste and sensations...
But China is fast becoming just another country, albeit with bad Chinese characteristics!

[Chairman Roberto]

Kenny--It's a fair question, and of course there are days I wake up and ask myself, "Why the hell am I doing this to myself?"

Pros would be highly motivated students (I'm at a public university), general freedom in the way you teach (as long as you don't touch the Three Terrible T's), free apartment...and if you live in Hunan...the BEST DAMN FOOD IN ASIA, BAR NONE! Cost of living is nothing, though travel is somewhat expensive if you're not pulling in a serious salary (say, above 6,000/month). And well, when it comes down to numbers, Mandarin Chinese is the most practical langauge to learn. Unless you're a fanatic about an individual country, fluency in Korean, Thai, or Japanese will only get you so far. Chinese is the biggest.

But yeah, China is an acquired taste, I'll concede that much. After a year, I STILL flinch at the hocking and snot rockets. China will remain barbaric in my eyes until they do something about that in their culture. (and I'm not holding my breath, though I SHOULD hold my breath! )

The (aaaaach! Ptweeew!) Chairman

[shenyanggerry]

I can only speak for Shenyang, not China as a whole. I loved it there.

Shenyang
Pros: cheap everything, friendly people, good parks, good public transport, wonderful food, fun ex-pats, live well on salary, street markets,
considerate employer, honest taxi drivers

cons: very polluted in winter, spitting, won't save anything, close early, no electrical outlet in classrooms, windy, few English books

P.S. I'm going back.

[Dalian Veteran]

[Minhang Oz]

I find honesty and fairness more characteristic of the Chinese than the greediness mentioned in the originator's post. Maybe I've been lucky, but that's four years of good luck.
As for pros, well you CAN make a good living here [not too many do though], and you don't have to work a 40 hour week to do it: 20 is enough. This has given me the chance to do further study, which I really hadn't envisaged until a few years ago. I'm a career English teacher, but hadn't worked in EFL until I came here on a Sabbatical several years back. China has changed my focus and direction, and recharged my teaching batteries.

[kimo]

kimchee said:

[Changjiang]

I agree with what most have said but take issue with one of Dalian's Cons: I like the drivers. I own a motorbike here and have had more excitement here than any ten years in Canada. Granted, I'll probably eventually end up in the hospital or dead in a ditch, but not until my reflexes give out. Remember: "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

[struelle]

[manise]

Look! It all depends where you are. The further away you are from Shanghai, Beijing and any other big and busy places, you will find that in general the people are very friendly, patient and tolerant.

If you are older, there are more respect shown by younger people in China than in Western Countries. I know, I have experienced it myself.

Take the traffic conditions for example, there are a lot of cars , bicycles and pedistrians on the roads, and although traffic rules are often not adhered to, you do not often have the usual road rage as happening in Western Countries. No hongking ( well at least not too many) or abuses etc. This requires patience and tolerance, which I suppose developed from having too many people.

[shenyanggerry]

manise, you obviously don't live in Shenyang. I think drivers there are taught where the horn is before they learn how to turn on the ignition.

I do feel that there are some driving folkways that appear in no rule book. I've seen chilling moves made with the absolute confidence that the others who shared the road would make room. It's not for the faint of heart to watch passing on two lane highways with traffic approaching. All three (or more) drivers co-operate and suddenly a third lane is created. Scary!

[struelle]

[Klamm]

Why China? Depends on you and if you like Japan, then you might be more likely to not like China. I didn't like Japan. I love China.

China
Pros: 1)Extremely low cost of living to salary ratio. You can buy and spend at will. You always have that feeling of getting a great deal. Whether its computer games, cds, parts for computers, meals, etc... . Always cheap. Electronic equipment may be less reliable but it compares well, in my experience, to equipment reliability in the US.
2) Beautiful People. It's the land of smiles!
3) Transport is convenient once you know a bit of the language. Motorcycle taxis are cheap, taxis are cheap, and -a big plus over Japan, if you get super lost and need to take a two hour taxi ride to a point of reference that you know, say McDonald's, you can do that relatively cheaply. You'd need bank vaults of cash with you to do that in Japan.
4)Great food. I like Chinese food. Japanes food is good too, though.
5)Experiencing a radically changing and shifting culture. For the humanities type interested in life experience, China is THE place. There's ancient history, modern developing dynamics, loads of minorities etc... . It's incredible. Japan is a bit...post development trauma in my experience. A tad shell-shocked, seemed to me.
6) Big country. Lots of places to go, each offering a somewhat different fare.
7) You're a foreigner! You're special and have a significantly higher status in the police and others eyes. You and $. China's developing.
Hong Kong. Great city! Takes Tokyo in everything, anyday!

Cons
1) Overly eager folk at times who press themselves and their desire for foreign friends to heavily and immediately upon you.
2) Hello, Gwai lo, lao wai...sometimes middle school students and young men will try to raz you and get a rise out of you. Eh, keep walking!
3) Administration often doesn't know what they're doing. If you need order, forget China.
4) If you don't know Chinese well (written and spoken) be ready to meet lots of shop people or regular daily people who eagerly saddle up to you and, when they discover you can't speak well, they scribble Chinese characters thinking that might work. I speak alright now, but this gets annoying. Surely the slightest amount of common sense would help one realize that if a person doesn't speak Chinese, they definitely don't read it! This used to happen near daily when I first came. This probably gets at the underlying problem of education...
5) Lack of standards in the industry. Lots of people teaching here who couldn't get a job anywhere else. Much moreso than other countries. Working with a degree is doable in China and there is often little or no competition for jobs. It depends on you, I guess, and what you're doing.
6) It's assumed you're wealthy. This can be annoying especially when it is often hardly true as many businessmen make far more.
7) Pollution. Very severe.
General darkness that exists in developing countries that doesn't in developed country. I'm talking ubiquitious prostitution, animals in cages barely large enough for their bodies, scenes of abuse, accepted attitudes and practices (domestic abuse etc...) that America and other countries have worked out like fifty plus years ago or more. Sure we still have problems in developing countries with the same issues, but these problems are no longer hush-hush, there are places for people to go, and we certainly do a lot less "it's a family issue" than before. Not so in China. Think 1950's, or even early 20th century/late 19th century (workers in mines and sweatshops). It can be a heavy load when you open your eyes and see it sometimes, although all the people you'll be with will do everything they can to make you never see this side of things.
9) Closed media/Puppet people. It's opening more now, but steer clear of politics in China. Students are wonderful here as long as you don't get at the puppet side of them. Then they can be really...arg...!

That's it.

K.

[kimo]

Klamm, some interesting reading. However, my experience differs on two points.

1. I loved Japan. And so far, I think China's just great too.

2. Your statement that those who don't speak Chinese, "definitely" don't read it is not correct. "Probably" would probably be more accurate. When I came here from Japan I had an instant reading vocabulary. A few years on and my reading skill still outpaces my speaking ability (a lot of self study will do that to you). I think Wolf and few others can relate to this.

[Diletante]

China's a good choice, maybe the best one if you're doing EFL for something to do until you get on with the rest of your life. For someone serious about EFL as a career, Japan could be a better option. Psychological counselling might be an even better one. Haha, just a joke, nothing wrong with teaching as a career.

But the reality is, a lot of people teaching in China are doing it expressly so that they can be in China. Teaching is a means to an ends. A small minority of hardcore TEFL types get all whiney and defensive about 'unqualified' amateurs taking working vacations. So what? Some might not like to admit it, but teaching isn't rocket science. A lot of people can do it, especially at the levels asked of us by many 'schools'. More training doesn't necessarily confer more relevant skill. Most masters programs are pedagogical pablum designed to provide educators with an advanced degree without putting them through the rigors of normal academia. Hmm, getting a little off topic here.

Anyway, the reason a lot of people (myself included) taught in China was because the whole point was to go to China, and teaching English is the most expedient way to do so, for those lacking adanced business or technical skills. The decision to go to China precedes the decision to teach. So then the question, 'why China' is more easily answered. Yeah, the job conditions aren't great (although mine were pretty decent and I saved plenty of cash), the pollution varies from bad to terrible, people spit on the ground (my solution? GET OVER IT for christ's sake!), but it's China, it's new, it's changing a mile a minute, and one way or another, it's going to shape the course of world history in the coming century.