| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Wow, that's crazy. The plane crashed in las Lomas, a rich area of town. I hope this isn't a narco thing. That would be raising the ane in the drug war by an order of magnitude. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
corporatehuman
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
From what I understand...they've not said anything about it being plotted but are ruling it an accident. That being said, who knows. Even worse, I work in the Lomas at -exactly- the time the plane crash occurred (except I am there on M, W, F) and normally I am riding my bicycle...
Regardless, I am feeling the insecurity! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Considering where the airport is (east Mexico City, but well within city limits) and the reputed difficulty of landings in high-altitude Mexico City, I'm surprised there aren't more plane crashes here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: narcos |
|
|
| I sure hope it was an accident. But really, if the attack in Morelia on innocent civilians didnt get people riled up against the narcos, why would this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: narcos |
|
|
| thelmadatter wrote: |
| I sure hope it was an accident. But really, if the attack in Morelia on innocent civilians didnt get people riled up against the narcos, why would this? |
I thought there was going to one heck of a backlash after Sept. 15... But there was just a whole bunch of apathy.
It's sad to see the level of apathy here.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was the narcos, but I doubt the government would tell the truth, it might be too damaging (If they can't stop planes from being taken out, they sure can't stop kidnappings and shootings).
At what point will the Mexican people say enough is enough? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
notamiss
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: narcos |
|
|
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
It's sad to see the level of apathy here.
[...]
At what point will the Mexican people say enough is enough? |
Is it apathy or is it impotence? I care and I think enough is enough, but what can I do? I'm far from the only one. Even if I joined together with thousands or hundreds of thousands of like-minded neighbours, what could we do? If armed power and force isn't stopping them, what can the citizenry's disapproval do? This is a genuine question, not merely rhetorical.
People are demanding the authorities "do something" and they are indeed making a show of "doing something" but is it effective? What would work better? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: doesnt matter |
|
|
I said I hoped it was an accident but after talking to my bf and some others... it really doesnt matter. Even if it was an accident, just the hell of a coincidence that it was the interior minister on board gives the same effect as if it was deliberate.
But in two weeks, no one will really talk about it.
I disagree that Mexican people are powerless... they only are when they think they are... Look at the big rally they had in the Zocalo after that poor 14-year-old kid got it. Authorities sat up and took notice, but they did so only for as long as people were willing to fuss. Once the crowds dispersed ... business as usual.
Gotta go back a ways but after the 1985 earthquake, when the PRI dominated government was paralyzed, most of the rebuilding was done by citizen coops. Look around my neighborhood of Doctores and you will see plaques of such on the housing units built after that event.
The sad thing is that it is easier to say "oh gee I really cant do anything" than to stick your neck out... thats why heroes arent a dime a dozen... and it leaves the field open to charlatans who talk like heroes (think AMLO) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
notamiss
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 908
Location: El 5o pino del la CDMX
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
About powerlessness, what I mean is what good does speaking out against crime and corruption do? (Ask Lydia Cacho.) What good does a huge rally do? For example, there have already been two "white marches against crime" that drew impressive numbers; hundreds of thousands of participants. Indeed it was moving to see such vast numbers of people united in a common cause.
But my cynical side asks what they actually accomplished. I doubt that the narcotraficantes looked at the marches and said to themselves, "Oh, gee, the people are really against us. Who knew? I guess we'd better stop this killing stuff or we'll be in real trouble." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1212
Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: change |
|
|
Change doesnt come from one grand show... it comes from consistent pressure. The PRI didnt come down because of one event. It took decades of events to reach that point. And it came down because the people got sick and tired of it.
I complain to my bank that it is ridiculous that they want me to go back to Toluca to change my address to where I live in DF now. Do they care about one little gringa? Obviously not... but I speak out anyway and I am changing banks... enough ppl do that and they get the message. I do what I can.
Yes, people die and get hurt in political changes/struggles. Show me a way you can make things better without it and Im all for it. But the real alternative is to just suck it up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Milenka
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 113
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: change |
|
|
| thelmadatter wrote: |
Change doesnt come from one grand show... it comes from consistent pressure. The PRI didnt come down because of one event. It took decades of events to reach that point. And it came down because the people got sick and tired of it.
|
And the alliances between PAN and PRI are clearer by the day. Don't even waste time discussing Fox, just think that from day one of his administration we've seen Calder�n and Co. happily rubbing shoulders with Elba Esther Gordillo, a fossilized but quite vivid example of the worst kind of crap coming out of the PRI sewers. So much for consistent pressure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No bomb, they are saying...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7717146.stm
| Quote: |
The Mexican authorities say they have ruled out a bomb as the cause of a fatal plane crash this week.
At least 13 people, including Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mourino, died when the plane crashed in the centre of Mexico City.
Transport Minister Luis Tellez said no trace of explosives had been found and there also had been no engine failure.
Correspondents say the government wanted to quell rumours that Mr Mourino may have been assassinated. |
The tin hat crowd will call this a cover-up of course. Accidents never happen...everything is conspiracy. Of course, it could be narcos got to the plane some other way than a bomb. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
No bomb, they are saying...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7717146.stm
| Quote: |
The Mexican authorities say they have ruled out a bomb as the cause of a fatal plane crash this week.
At least 13 people, including Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mourino, died when the plane crashed in the centre of Mexico City.
Transport Minister Luis Tellez said no trace of explosives had been found and there also had been no engine failure.
Correspondents say the government wanted to quell rumours that Mr Mourino may have been assassinated. |
The tin hat crowd will call this a cover-up of course. Accidents never happen...everything is conspiracy. Of course, it could be narcos got to the plane some other way than a bomb. |
The best way would have been to use mechanical sabotage. A bomb is just too obvious, unless you really wanted to get a message across and that's what these cartels are all about. Nothing subtle or gentle about grenade attacks, beheadings, and running gun battles in major city streets including one right next door to a school. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mejico Joe
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Ajijic - Centro
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: Plane Crash |
|
|
My wife and I disagree on this.
She says that its the narcos.
My view is that IF it was them, they'd want to take credit for it.
Their biggest threat is psychological. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
No bomb, they are saying...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7717146.stm
| Quote: |
The Mexican authorities say they have ruled out a bomb as the cause of a fatal plane crash this week.
At least 13 people, including Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mourino, died when the plane crashed in the centre of Mexico City.
Transport Minister Luis Tellez said no trace of explosives had been found and there also had been no engine failure.
Correspondents say the government wanted to quell rumours that Mr Mourino may have been assassinated. |
The tin hat crowd will call this a cover-up of course. Accidents never happen...everything is conspiracy. Of course, it could be narcos got to the plane some other way than a bomb. |
Of course there wasn't a bomb! Notice how the government themselves always carry out these kind of investigations and always come to a conclusion that rules them out. Just like the government investigation into 9/11, JFK Jr's 'plane crash' (same style as this one) and countless others. There's your conspiracy, look no further. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
