Job Discussion Forums

[superturbo]

I need some help in deciding where to take my CELTA course this May...

I've done some research and my shortlist is something like this (in no particular order):

- Budapest, Hungary > Good trainer?
- Wroclaw, Poland > Good facilities?
- Prague, Czech Rep. > Popular?
- Kyiv, Ukraine > I've been before

I'm still unsure as to where to take the course - maybe there's somewhere else to consider?

Important factors include quality of course, materials and facilities available, community and assistance during time there, accommodation provided, other costs- travel, food etc. and help in finding work upon completion of the course.

Can you send me your recommendations and help me decide on this please? As I say I would like to take the course itself around May, although I am aware most school semesters might begin around September. I feel this would give me some extra time to look around for a good job in a possibly difficult market to break into.

[Mike_2007]

I think a CELTA is pretty much the same anywhere. Certainly from the moment you've received the certificate itself, nobody is going to care where you got it from. Therefore I think you should really decide where you want to live and work first and take the CELTA there, regardless of the course's reputation (which will vary from school to school anyway).

I was in a similar situation to you when I moved to Romania (although I already had 5 years experience). I wanted to work in central/eastern Europe and was trying to choose between Romania, Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic.

In the end I plumped for Romania because the language is easier which means I could get to the point of self-sufficiency (not relying on friends/girlfriends/colleagues to translate everything for me) sooner, because the weather is better and the countryside more diverse (mountains, valleys, fortified towns, coastal areas, the Danube, etc.), and because I had visited once already and already knew a few people here.

I think you need to make a very realistic list of your needs (what you really need, not what you THINK you need), your expectations, your desires, things that would hinder you and your priorities. Then research each of your target countries well until one simply 'feels' right. Once you've made that decision you can simply do the CELTA there.

Best,
Mike

[superturbo]

Good advice Mike; however what do you mean by 'what I really need, not what I THINK I need'?

Care to give an example?

[Mike_2007]

Hi ST,

Sometimes we're all influenced by our environment, which these days often involves a constant barrage of media images and advertising pressuring us to accept market-conceived notions of what makes us happy. This, in my opinion, can sometimes cloud our ability to be self-aware and to really understand when we are happy and why. All I'm suggesting is that you try to identify the moments in your life when you are genuinely happy, relaxed, at ease or whatever, and try to understand what factors in your environment bring about that state. This may then help you put together a profile of a potentially satisfying living/working environment.

Examples could be anything: having good access to certain facilities in your area like gyms or sports clubs, being able to socialise with people from a similar cultural background, having free weekends, and so on. Most people focus on salary and holidays when job searching, which is normally fine when you're searching for a job in an already-familiar environment, but if you're going to be moving to a complete new country you'll probably need to think a lot more carefully and realistically about your needs, based on your past life experience.

Starting out in a new country always begins as a great adventure, but for longer-term happiness you have to plan a little more meticulously (or simply get lucky )

Best,
Mike

[superturbo]

Some very good advice here Mike.

One of my main aims to begin teaching in a foreign climate is to live in a new culture and also to mix travel with work. I would like to get away from England and to experience life living somewhere new (as opposed to just a holiday) and I hope that I am mature and wise enough to cope in what could still be a tough place. The whole idea of meeting new people and places, learning new traditions and customs, and also not being tied down to a particular place is very appealing to me.

With regards to teaching I find it very natural to explain English since I have friends and family who often ask me what something means, how to say certain things, how to write a letter etc. I have always been around people who quite often have had English as a 2nd language. Teaching it is quite a natural step for me and also it would give me a huge opportunity to improve my own knowledge (as you will know native speakers are not often hot on the grammar side of things).

Finally, in terms of what I would like to have in my host country - it's so subjective that it's almost hard to put into words. Basically someplace where I can find gyms, cafes, nightclubs, tourist sights, that I would expect (pretty much available worldwide I think) and where the people are decent enough not to be so xenophobic that they'd try to lynch me - but in this case I don't think I'd be hired in the first place.

Anyway, I'm still wondering where to go with regards to my original shortlist. Anyone been to any of these places and can give more recommendations?

Cheeeeeeeeeeers!!!

[spiral78]

I've been to all of 'em, but what kind of recommendations can I usefully give? For me, Prague's the best, but my tastes and priorities may be very different from yours.

[superturbo]

What were your impressions of each one?

[Mike_2007]

Also depends how long you're planning to stay in that particularly place. I loved Istanbul (I was there for 5 years) but in the end I found it quite hard to settle there. Would be a fantastic and fascinating place to spend a year or two though.

How long are you planning to spend in your initial destination?

[superturbo]

I think I will spend 4 weeks doing my CELTA firstly, and depending on the experience I will consider staying in the same country/area for at least 1 year (if I can get such a contract).

[superturbo]

Just wondered about the state of accomodation I can expect to find in the various countries I have mentioned in this post. How much should I expect to pay altogether (rent and bills)?

[spiral78]

The best answer to this is that, as a newbie teacher in any of the locations you mention, you should make enough money to cover basic living expenses and to enjoy the city/country you are living in.

You are highly unlikely to be able to save up anything, buy anything big, or fund extensive travel outside the country.

As for accomodations, they are likely to be below the standard you are used to. You can generally expect a place to be clean when you move in, probably furnished with old, worn, but serviceable stuff. Because housing will be by far your largest expense, it is ideal if you can flat-share with other teachers. This generally means a private bedroom in a 2-3-4 bedroom flat, and shared kitchen and living space. If you strongly prefer to live on your own, you should expect to spend 50% or a bit more of your monthly salary on housing alone.

One important aspect of housing to consider is its proximity to public transport. The closer to the centre of a city, the more expensive housing is likely to be. It's generally better to be outside of the city centre, so long as you are near a metro, tram, or bus line.

[superturbo]

Thanks for the response spiral.

At the start of your post you mention 'as a newbie teacher' so I'm hoping that in a few years time, after gaining experience and contacts I could see my situation improve.

From what you type it sounds like I'd expect to be living in student digs - is that right? I don't mind sharing a house (it'd probably be safer and more fun).

I'm not the sort of person who buys many material things but I do like to have enough to go out a few times a week or to buy a book. And of course I'd like to have even a bit of money to the side so that when holidays do come I'm not stuck with nothing to do.

Is this at all viable? If not, how do you guys manage? Does it depend on getting enough experience and finding the right school?

[spiral78]

As you gain local contacts and language skills, opportunities do improve - however, none of the regions you mention pay enough (regardless of quals) in either private or state schools for big stuff, like buying a flat or car. If they did, I'd be living/working in Prague rather than in the Netherlands! I've got the whole package, meaning experience, qualifications, local language skills, and contacts - but the job market that will support an actual future just isn't there.

As a newbie, yes, you should be ok to go out a few times a week and/or to buy a book. If you save up a bit, you can definitely plan to be able to travel around the country you're in, and you should probably be able to swing a package holiday somewhere else once or twice a year.

I am essentially talking sort of student digs, yes. But bear in mind that housing is disproportionately expensive in Europe in general. You're unlikely to find anything affordable on any kind of teaching salary that will provide western-style housing. I'm essentially living in upscale student housing myself, and I have a well-paid university position in Western Europe. I still couldn't afford an actual house here!

[superturbo]

Thanks for the info again spiral.

As in the rest of life even this decision seems so important and I have to consider it from all kinds of angles. The idea of teaching, living in a new culture, meeting new people, having more holiday time [than my current job] and travelling seems very appealing to me.

On the other hand, low wages which could leave me in a dead end situation, and instability in my host country seem to put a huge question mark over this entire endeavour.

I think what I will do is take my CELTA course and then see how it is living in a new country for a month - not a holiday, but actually living and working there. Depending on how that experience goes, and how I cope with teaching and learning at the same time, I will know more about the future.

Still not sure where exactly to take the CELTA course but good advice spiral. I think this is one of those posts where you can tell me a million different things, and I will be aware of the pluses and pitfalls but I won't know for sure how it all is until I actually do it for myself.

[spiral78]

Unless you're going to lose something important by making a one-year commitment, I suggest you go for the CELTA at any of the locations you've suggested, then commit to a regular Sept-June contract.

These courses are very intensive, and the very small bits of the culture/country that you will have time to experience while on the course will not give you any real feel for the place at all.

Further, the first 30 days are challenging in ways that the last 3-4 months of a year-long contract are not. It really takes a few months to settle in enough to get any realistic idea of what it's like there.

That said, if you're considering the job as a potential long-term career, you can be assured that, without additional qualifications (MA TESL/TEFL or Applied Linguistics) plus experience, you're essentially doomed to a hand-to-mouth life long term. Yes, some people make it ok as teacher trainers (though they usually need at least a DELTA) or Directors of Studies without further teaching quals, but those positions are not secure long-term.

As a UK citizen, if you find that you do really like the job and are willing to gather both experience and upper-level qualifications, there are jobs out there (rare, but around now and then) that provide actual benefits and etc, and are viable careers. Just that you don't get there with just a CELTA, or any other 30-day qualification!! But that's obviously true in any field.