Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

Bummer. Not Fair. I agree.
My personal view is that all borders should be abolished, and anyone who can get regular employment in a country should be allowed to live there and contribute to the society.

But the fact -

non-EU citizens most often can't get legal status under many circumstances and in many countries in the European Union.

Yes, I'm speaking Generally here on the General Europe forum.

***Some countries and circumstances - yes, it's legally possible. Student visas, working holiday visas, international schools - they apply to A FEW. Further, Central Europe is still generally OK ***

For most of Western Europe, by all means, check to see if you can possibly qualify under any of the legal options. It's NOT IMPOSSIBLE - but it's relatively rare, in comparison to the numbers of newbies trying to get info on the question


But the 'old' EU member states - in MOST CASES - it's a NO.

The outcome is NOT RELATED to how hard one tries or wants things to work out. Or even to qualifications and experience, in many cases

THE POINT OF THE POST:

The issue I'm interested in is this: those of us who are genuinely concerned about newbie teachers usually advise that the reality on the ground is very tough, and that there are risks.
However, there are always those who come back to say that
1)'the risks are negligible,'
2) 'it's always been done,'
3) 'where there's a will, there's a way.'

My basic goal is to give newbies realistic information. IF they choose to live and work illegally, they should at the very minimum be aware that there are real risks.

Others tend to be far more 'positive' about working and living illegally.

And they tend to sneer at those of us who try to express the legal realities of the situation.

My position is that those of us who are 'naysayers' and 'doomsdayers' are those who have the genuine best interests of the newbies at heart.
My message is essentially - Come On Over If You Decide To, Knowing the Situation - At Least You'll Be Aware of the Risks.

I'm tired of taking flak for this.

What do you think?

[naturegirl321]

I agree with spiral about working illegaly. I wouldn't risk it. Deportation is a real risk. In places like Asia and Latin America, working undre the table is ok, but i the Schegan area, you overstay and you're banned from the WHOLE area.

There are loopholes though, working holiday visas, teaching assistantships, etc, I'm not an expert, like spiral is, but this is what I know
http://tefltips.blogspot.com/2009/03/europe-for-non-eu-passport-holders.html

[Mike_2007]

[ITTP]

[spiral78]

Actually, what bugs me isn't repeating the same set of stuff for newbies.

I'm quite happy to work with newbies, and am generally patient with repeated basic questions.

The thing that bugs me is getting constant flak from other posters who encourage newbies by implying that the risks don't exist, or are very minimal - and who often label me negatively in the process.

[Mike_2007]

Best thing to do is to prepare a definitive description of EU working opportunities for North Americans and post it as a sticky. It'll save you a lot of time and hassle and will be a useful resource.

[spiral78]

The laws vary by country and can change
The sticky wouldn't have much long-term applicability, I'm afraid.

[ITTP]

[Teacher in Rome]

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but even within Italy the policies are interpreted differently depending on where you are, who you are etc. Yes, there are official rules, but ten to one the local policeman isn't aware of them. Or he thinks one thing, but the guy in the questura thinks something else.

If you're caught working illegally you might get deported, or you might get a warning. The bottom line is that it's probably not a good idea to do it in the first place. But Italy is not a "black and white" country, rather one with differing shades of grey. Plus they keep changing the laws, so nobody is 100% sure of where they stand.

[spiral78]

Yeah - it's the same in the other countries I'm familiar with.

I think the clearer message to people considering working illegally is that they are likely to be caught when going through passport control at airports.

As far as getting caught in-country, it's far less likely, though as Glenlivet pointed out on the France board, it would only take some unlucky incident involving police or other officials, like a road accident or losing your passport/getting robbed.

[ITTP]

[naturegirl321]

[spiral78]

RE the Czech Rep:

It's not exactly 'easy' but it's totally do-able. It does take time and a lot of trotting around to offices, and you'll need someone with local language skills to help (your employer, or some staff member, for preference).

I think anyone teaching illegally in Prague is just silly - in countries where you are legally eligible for a work permit, there's no good reason not to apply for one!

I am not sure about 2009 regulations, but it's normally been that so long as your paperwork's been filed, you are considered provisionally legal even before the papers are actually issued. That means you can start work and walk on the streets without any serious worry.

[ITTP]

[spiral78]

On the topic of teaching illegally in the CR:

http://www.praguepost.com/news/989-visa-laws-plague-teachers.html