Job Discussion Forums

Tiger Beer · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 778 Location: Hong Kong

I've been seeing some ads for very low pay university work in this area....

I am curious if anyone has worked at one of those places?

Is it all LOW LOW pay...or are there some a higher pay?

I'm a bit surprised as I've known contractors related to the U.S. military who might get $100,000 to drive a truck, or work at the airport, etc. So, I'm surprised that english teachers, with even more exposure to the public would get near abysmal pay.

Somewhat starting this thread to just generate conversation on the entire topic as well...

Sadebugo · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 524

I'm a DOD civilian who worked in AF last year. While there, I was working with contractors who made good money as teachers. Two companies that I remember hearing about were ILS and Dynacorp.

Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

From what I've heard... just gossip from friends in both countries as non-educators... you need "wasta" to get the few high paying jobs. Not Middle East "wasta", but connections in the US military/industrial complex. You won't see them advertised here or any of the other usual TEFL job sites.

VS

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Do you really want to go and work in a position where you will be perceived as one of the occipiers?

And risk your life ? For filthy lucre ? As a pedagogical mercenary ?

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Hey Scot... we say that now, but what about in our younger, more adventurous days? Laughing

VS

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Would you have worked in South Africa in the 1960's and 1970's ?
Or Spain under Franco ?

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

No, but I was a scrawny teenage girl in the 60's and not any bigger or braver in the 70's... never the adventurous type like so many men. Cool

VS

johnslat · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject:

Having worked in Vietnam as one of the "occupiers," I guess I'd probably work for the devil in hell (if the salary were good enough, and, if I could get an exit visa.)
However, I'm unsure as how much need there might be for an EFLer in hell (and the place is probably overstocked with them, anyway.)

Regards,
John

P.S.

Dear scot47,

"Would you have worked in South Africa in the 1960's and 1970's ?
Or Spain under Franco ?"

I'm not so sure that working for the Saudi Royal Family is so terribly different from the examples you cited.

Neil McBeath · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 277 Location: Saudi Arabia

Somebody who DID work as an EFL teacher in Spain during Franco's rule is the saintly "Sir" Bob Geldoff.

Whoever would have thought it??

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

That is okay, come the revolution we will sort him out too.

Green Acres · Joined: 06 May 2009 Posts: 260

I was confused by that too, but then I realized that working in a troubled area is a good way to lend a hand to those who are need of assistance. Things aren't always what they seem, and oftentimes one person can make a difference. It's just a matter of what kind of difference you are willing to make.

Neil McBeath · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 277 Location: Saudi Arabia

Green Acres,

Thank you very much. At last a voice of sanity. It's very easy to follow the four-legs-good; two-legs-bad logic of those who believe that Left is right and Right is wrong.

While we're at it, here are some more pieces of information.

(A) John Haycraft founded International House in Franco's Spain.

(B) Gerry Abbott taught at the University of Mandalay before, during and just after the National League for Democracy's campaign started in Burma. His book was one of the first to explain just how much misery the Generals' junta had caused, and was causing.

(C) At the Bahrain University ELT Conference in 2002 (?) there was a presentation from a teacher who had the dubious distinction of having taught at the Kim Il Song University in Northe Korea. His experiences were fascinating, but unlikely to inspire anyone to follow him.

Sadebugo · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 524

Sadebugo · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 524

johnslat · Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject:

Dear Sadebugo,

I suppose it all depends on how scrupulous you are and on how tender your conscience is. It may also depend on how desperate you are for a job.

But I think the Green Acres made a very good point. The "political correctness" of your employer is, I'd say, irrelevant in most cases as long as you're doing the best job you can. I worked for the Saudi government for nineteen years. Personally, I consider the Royal Family to be an oppressive and extremely distasteful regime. However, when I was there, I always kept in mind the good possibility that at least some of my students (maybe more) were going to form at least some of their impressions (maybe more) about Americans specifically and "westerners" in general based on my behavior.
Perhaps I was mistaken, but I thought of myself as being as sort of "unofficial representative" of a different culture, and I always tried to
encourage mutual understanding and mutual respect.
We teach English, but as TEFLers, I suspect that we teach a lot more than that. How we act and what we say while abroad may have an impact far beyond what we realize. After all, the stereotype of "The Ugly American"
likely arose from the individual acts of Americans when they were overseas:

"Pejorative term for Americans traveling or living abroad who remain ignorant of local culture and judge everything by American standards."

So, isn't it our responsibility to at least try to show that America, the same as every other nation, is comprised of "decent" as well as "ugly" individuals?

I can't change the world, in the sense of replacing dictatorial regimes, but I think I can change the worlds of at least a few of my students if I can, by my behavior, break down some of the stereotypes that foster misunderstanding, dislike, and even hatred.

All we can do is maintain our personal integrity; we cannot maintain everyone else's.

Regards,
John