Job Discussion Forums

kneezah · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Taiwan

I know there's a similar posting about someone who's wondering if they can teach without their actual degree even though they've graduated. But is it actually legal to teach without a degree (no univeristy, no college)? I have yet to see anything on the Embassy website that says you can't teach English w/o one...

My boyfriend and I were initally looking to teach in Korea (I have a degree while he doesn't) but it seems virtally impossible to teach legally without one there. Is it the same in Taiwan Question

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

You can not get a work permit as a teacher without a four year degree from an accepted university.
In reality of course you can work here in Taiwan without a degree. You will hear from the R.O.C. cronies that you will be arrested and deported but that is unusual. The current trend is to issue legitimate and qualified teachers work permits and ARC's then arbitrarily change the regulations thus leaving large numbers of legal teachers vulnerable to deportation and their employers open to mass extortion from Ministry of Education officials. At this point in time I strongly recommend that all teachers avoid getting ARC's and work permits as teachers.
Good luck,
A.

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

As one who has asked--repeatedly-- for evidence of the supposed advantage of illegal work in Taiwan, I have to agree with the last point of the previous post. The way Aristotle puts it, working without an arc is somehow safer and more secure than having one (contrary to common sense). He even goes as far as to claim having legal status as an English teacher extinguishes your human rights. He provides no evidence why this is supposedly the case, despite repeated requests. I have no choice but to conclude that lack of such evidence is the reason for his uncharacteristic silence. I am therefore -- since it is en vogue these days to do so-- issuing my own "work advisory:" Don't accept outrageous claims from Aristotle.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

How anyone could imply that there is anything close to a rule of law on Taiwan implies deception.
Taiwan has only one rule that is the rule of culture. That culture if based on the Confucius principles of lie, cheat and coerce.
The people of Taiwan do not follow the laws, they follow their culture most ignorantly. If they did follow the laws,Taiwan would resemble Singapore not some third world backwater. When the obvious reality of the situation becomes too apparent to ignore they apply the first rule of their Confucius culture. Lie and lie boldly.
The most apparent example would be the Republic of China itself.
A.

matchstick_man · Joined: 21 May 2003 Posts: 244 Location: Taiwan

How exactly does digging for conspiracy theories in the ROC make one a cultural expert on the culture of this island. You seem to be accusing the Taiwanese of being hypocritical for not following laws and then suggesting others follow your example. Let's face it, legal is better as there are more benefits and the risk of deportation is nearly totally diminished.

EOD · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 167 Location: Taiwan

I used to believe that Taiwan was moving towards what some like to call the rule of law but then something like this happens.
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/..%5Cp_detail.asp?id=45794&GRP=A&onNews=
One step forward two steps back.

Wonder · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 109

First of all, I agree somewhat with the posters who are questioning Aristotle. Man... Aristotle...! You should really chill out because you have stopped making sense. I respect the fact that your intentions are good, but you are confusing a lot of people!

Second of all, YOU DO NOT NEED A DEGREE TO TEACH IN TAIWAN!

If you read the fine print of almost any legal and credible government Website (and some school websites), they will inform you that a two year diploma and a TESOL cetificate will let you teach legally in Taiwan.

I should know because I have just done this. Send me a PM and I will explain the process, although it is no different than using a degree. However, I do have two years exp. and my diploma is in journalism, so that might have a bearing on the acceptance.

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

Wonder it would be helpful if you could post links to the government websites that you mention. It would also be helpful if you could post any of the information you are offering via PM here on the site. What you have stated to be fact goes against everything that has been said on the subject. It may be valuable to discuss this on this open forum so that everyone can benefit and get a final answer on the subject, either way.

killian · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject:

two ways:
1) have a BA/BS (or equivalent) from one of the big six-oz,nz,uk,can,us, sa.

or...

2) have a two year diploma/degree and some sort (seemingly any sort) of esl certificate.

either of these venues are viable for qualifying for an ARC.

WorkingVaca · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 135

I agree with previous comments questioning Aristotle's credibility. I have frequently posted requests for him to provide the SOURCE of his hysterical information, but he either doesn't reply, or resorts to long-winded sophism that never really addresses the relevent points, or posts a few links to some Taipei Times articles that aren't necessarily news flashes by this time, and signs off with the link to his Geocities website claiming to be some kind of unionist organization. I'm sick of this guy. He is a classic CYBER KOOK. l Whenever I see his name in a thread, and it always almost invariably comes up since he's a compulsive message board poster, I DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO READ HIS COMMENTS.

WorkingVaca · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 135

As for legally teaching without a degree, I know more than a few teachers who have bragged about getting forged degrees from Kho San Road in Bangkok, or forging themselves. It's risky, and probably not a good recommendation, but something to keep in mind.

Wonder · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 109

Brian, you raise some excellent questions, so this is how I found out I could teach here without a degree: (By the way, there is no big secrets you could discover if you PM me. I just gave that option to people who wish to remain discrete).

When I was looking for work in Canada, a Taiwan based school contacted me and its rep told me that a two-year diploma and TESOL certificate will allow me to teach legally in Taiwan. That's it!

If in fact you would like more proof, perhaps do a Google search and I'm sure within 60 seconds you will have an affirmative answer.

I suggest to all those people holding post-secondary certificates to inquire about the value of said certificates. You never know what may happen.

killian · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:16 am Post subject:

the original poster asked if it was possible to LEGALLY teach here with 0 college, 0 degrees.

aristotle was correct. such non-degree status disqualifies an applicant for a teaching ARC.

yes, lots of folks here teach without degrees, but such was not the nature of the original post.

please folks, read before reacting.

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

Thanks for the reply Wonder but it doesn't really provide any more information than your original post. I have a genuine desire to learn how what you suggest can be done. I don't need the information personally, but it would be good to be able to give a definitive answer to those that ask.

I don't know if I would necessary believe much that a school recruiting teachers tells you.

Could you expand on either of the following with some links etc., as I haven't been able to find anything. It seems that you have been through the process and therefore no doubt know the sites etc.