Job Discussion Forums

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

Muslimes, like yourself, are free to go on pilgriamge to the two holy cities. Why not go on Umra and drop in to the Institute ?

Those of us who are NOT muslims do not have this freedom - even after 30 years residence in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

It seems odd that a Muslim shouild be asking Christians for advice about a city that is closed to all except the faithfull. Go to Mecca (oh sorry, Makkah) and Medina and see for yourself.

And when you are there ask why the two holy cities are closed to us.

muslimah · Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Posts: 2 Location: USA

johnslat · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:56 pm Post subject: Human rights

Dear muslimah,
I've been in the Kingdom for almost 19 years. I've always figured: " It's their ballpark, so they get to make the rules ". However, that doesn't mean I think all their rules are good ones. Freedom for individuals to practice their own religion is not only a " Western/American ideal "; you'll find it being applied pretty universally - except in the Kingdom. I'd call it a " human right ", rather than assigning it to any particular geography.
When one's religion says that no other religion can be practiced, then I'd say it violates human rights. So yes - it's their country and they can do whatever they want. But that doesn't necessarily make it right, nor do I have to agree with it.
Regards,
John

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

And when you are in Medina ask them about the right to practise our religion openly. Muslims can go to a mosque in Rome, London or New York. When will Christians be allowed to go to church in Saudi Arabia ?

Paul G · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 125 Location: China & USA

The Prophet taught that Judaism, Christianity and Islam worship the same god and that their beliefs are to be equally respected. This point seems to escape many modern-day followers of Islam.

johnslat · Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:26 am Post subject: A disinterested oberver

Dear muslimah,
I thought I'd mention that my comments are those of a disinterested party. Being an agnostic/Deist, I feel no deprivation at not being allowed to attend any kind of worship services. I do know the Kingdom's " reason " for not allowing other faiths to worship here; Saudi Arabia ( supposedly ) has a " special status " being as it's the homeland of the Prophet, the land where Islam was established. But I'm afraid that " reason " doesn't satisfy me. Prohibiting other faiths from public worship seems, to me, to be occasioned more by insecurity and fear than anything else. When you have a monopoly, well, you don't have to worry about the competition, so to speak. And the Kingdom does allow ( so kindly ) those of other faiths to " worship in the privacy of their homes ".
But that also seems a strange " allowance ", to me, coming from a faith that stresses so much the necessity for community/public worship. Saudi Arabia very rightly protests when/if Moslems are hindered from openly practicing their faith anywhere, anytime. Yet it prohibits those of other faiths from doing the same. That seems remarkably like hypocrisy to me.
Regards,
John

johnslat · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:07 am Post subject: Good luck

Dear muslimah,
I'm sorry to see that you've apparently left this thread, although I can also see why you probably chose to do so. I hope you realize that none of my comments were intended to be personally offensive to you in any way. I hope that you do make it here to the Kingdom and that the experience is a rewarding one for you. All the best.
Regards,
John

nimra_ghalat · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 25

I believe that the Prophet himself ordered the Arabian Peninsula to be cleared of all infidels, so the Saudi royal family is already treading on thin ice by allowing them into the country to work in the first place. Openly allowing them to practice their religion would totally undermine their source of legitimacy.

Is there any way of seeing what the original posting was about? "aaa" isn't very informative, but it seems to have touched a chord!

Paul G · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 125 Location: China & USA

The original question was (more or less) whether or not there are EFL jobs available in Medina.

Once someone edits their post, there is no way of recovering the old text.

johnslat · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:22 am Post subject: No compulsion?

Dear nimra_ghalat,
" I believe that the Prophet himself ordered the Arabian Peninsula to be cleared of all infidels . . ".
You could be right - but would you cite the source of your belief? I ask this even though I know that the Quran, like the Bible, can be used to defend even positions that are polar opposites. Mohammed did say, though, " Let there be no compulsion in religion ", didn't he?
Regards,
John

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I too have heard of the existence of a "Hadith" of the Prophet (pbuh), declaring that only Muslims should be allowed on the Arabian Peninsula.
Can anyone come up with this Hadith ?

You sometimes come across the resentment here directed against ALL FOREIGNERS, not just the non-muslim. This goes with the territory and you have to learn how to handle it. That is why we get salaries here that are a bit higher than in other places.

I still feel safer here than in Bradford or Birmingham.

nimra_ghalat · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 25

I found a searchable Hadith website (www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html) which said that in the Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288, for one, it is related that the Prophet implored his followers to drive out "pagans" from the "peninsula."

There were five other hits, but the ones I looked at were basically the same version. In the Arabic, the word is "mushrikiin", i.e., polytheists.

johnslat · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:51 am Post subject: Pagan rights

Dear nimra_ghalat,
But would " People of the Book " - Jewish and Christian - be pagans? Don't think so. And nothing mentioned about " prohibiting " the practice of any other religion ( especially those of the " Book people ")?
Regards
John