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scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Outside Scotland no one seems to have noticed but in Edinburgh since May 5, 2011, we now have a Scottish Government with an absolute majority of SNP MSP's.

Is this the end of the Union of 1707 ?

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject:

historically inevitable, matey....

Captain_Fil · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:44 am Post subject:

Will Quebec leave Canada?

Question

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

Quebec used to have a Parti Quebecois government and they tried (and failed) to leave Canada not once but twice.

failed both times.

The benefit to Scotland staying in the union far outweighs the negatives.

Leaving is just an emotional heart-provoking response. Staying in is a common sense brain-provoked decision.

Dedicated · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK

In Scotland, the SNP won a comfortable majority over Labour, which can be partly attributed to the collapse of the Lib Dem vote and Labour's lousy electoral campaign. However,although the SNP may be pushing towards independence, Scots take a distinctly dimmer view of independence than Mr Salmond - only 35% favour it, according to a poll published on April 24th.

Salmond is now committed to holding a referendum on independence before the end of his 5-year term, which in this respect " you could say the voters have called his bluff". Success brings its own dilemmas. Salmond will no longer be able to play the underdog and will struggle to deliver on his spending pledges.

Under current funding arrangements, each Scot gets 1,600 GB pounds more in public funds than each English person.But they may not enjoy this cushy deal for much longer, because Westminster wants to bring in a fairer arrangement - one that would see Holyrood's 30 billion pound budget cut by 4.5 billion. Trying to make up that shortfall through tax rise would bring the Scots face to face with the appalling fiscal demography of their nation. Of the country's 4 million voters, only 2.3 million pay income tax. And most of them work for the state. In 2005, the public sector accounted for 74% of the Ayrshire economy, a situation one critic described as an "Eastern bloc" level of dependency. Indeed, in 2009, Scotland achieved the statistical feat of being "the third most state-dependent country in the world, after communist Cuba and war-ravaged Iraq". Yet far from making cuts, Scottish leaders are announcing council tax freezes and boasting of bold new spending plans. Alex Salmond rides high on free prescriptions, frozen council taxes and university tuition provided free of charge courtesy of the English taxpayer. We send up 24 billion pounds a year to Scotland in subsidies.

It must have been like this in Pompeii on the eve of the eruption.

If the Scots one day choose to become a separate nation, we can and should do nothing to stop them.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I would be very wary of statistics about who gets what. "Lies, damned lies and statistics", to quote a long-dead British Statesman.

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject:

"There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss"

Regards,
John

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

John
If your ancestors had believed that, you would still be under English rule !

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject:

Will Scots still be British if they leave the union?

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject:

Dear scot47,

You have a point. But looking at history - the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Iranian "Islamic Revolution" - the American one seems to be singular in not going from the frying pan into the fire.

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

Reading an engrossing book by Howard Zinn at the moment - A People's History of the United States. In it he describes the American revolution not so much as a revolution at all as a 'change of management'. As for as the poor white folks, the black slaves, all women, and the native Americans, nothing much changed.

So, not so singular because it left most institutions intact. All that really happened was that the British settlers in America cut out the Brits in the old country...

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

He makes some very valid points - but at least we didn't end up with the guillotine, the gulags, or a theocracy (at least not yet, anyway.)

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

I think his point is that for the elite there were no guillotines, but for the rest of the great masses of unwashed humanity there may as well have been. No one likes using the word genocide flippantly, but his accounts of the Trail of Tears are quite moving for all their clinical brevity. If there is a difference between that and the cruel Siberian transports in the USSR, I fail to see it...

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

Another valid point. However, I was considering more how revolutions have a tendency to disappoint many who originally supported them, sometimes they even devour the original revolutionaries.

While the treatment of the Native Americans and the blacks in the USA are shameful chapters in our history, I think both may not be too relevant to the point I was making.

Regards,
John

Mr. Kalgukshi · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject:

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