Job Discussion Forums

Dude Love Japan · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

-Me again, 34 year-old Canadian male, B.A. in English, CELTA and years of relevant exp. in Korea. A few years ago I went to HK for a PNET interview and was provisionally hired but nothing else since then, so the int'l trip was for nothing (at least until now). VTC seems like a similar gig. Anyone heard of them? They've just offered me an in-person interview. Looks good but they seem to offer shared housing and I have a wife and two girls, so no dice. Hopefully I can get my own place from them or a housing allowance.
-What about IELTS examining in HK? I'd like to get into that to supplement my income. Is there much work?
-Finally, anyone heard of Head Start? If I pass a Skype interview they want me in HK for 6 weeks of unpaid training. Seems dicey but I've been trying to get into HK for years, so I might just do it. I've been applying for the PGDE's in HK but I'd rather get the exp. needed in HK and then do it pt instead. Thanks for any and all input!

Perilla · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 792 Location: Hong Kong

I know nothing about VTC or the language mill (six weeks of unpaid training sounds very dodgy to me) but yes, there's loads of IELTS work in HK.

Joshua2006 · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 342

VTC have several campuses around Hong Kong and my own personal assessment of it is that it is simply a further education college. One of my son's classmates' father works in one of them and seems happy enough and the 'shared' housing is in a huge housing block that they have...not shared literally but a shared block. They have their own house so i am sure you would be able to get the same.

IELTS.....yes. A whole load of IELTS. You can book up nearly every weekend if you want to and you can also work for all three IELTS providers if you want to.

6 weeks unpaid training? Come one man....wake up. You know that ain't gonna happen any way you look at it.

Dude Love Japan · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

thanks!

sistercream · Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 497 Location: Pearl River Delta

VTC = Vocational Training College, as already mentioned they have a number of campuses, and a a quasi-government group. I would definitely go with them rather than a language mill. If you get assigned to one of the campuses that's out in the New Territories (e.g. Tuen Mun), then it won't cost you an arm and a leg to get your own housing. The BIG issue would be your children's education (you don't mention their ages) - international school places are scarce as hen's teeth, and most cost $$$$$$$$$ once you do get in. So please do consider this issue too.

6 weeks unpaid training can be translated as "we're going to need you in the classroom before your employment visa can be approved, but don't want to be caught by the Immigration Dep't." But it takes just as long to get a training visa, without which you would be equally illegal in the interim. I'd pass up on this one.

Dude Love Japan · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

-Thanks everyone for your interest and contribution. As for my girls, the older one will turn 3 in Aug. 2012 and I'd therefore want her to get started in an HK kindy since I intend to live in the city indefinitely and therefore want her to learn Cantonese.
-As for the 6 weeks of unpaid "training," yes, it seems like a rip-off. But I do want to get into HK badly and since I have a sweet Uni. gig in Korea I'll be on a paid summer vacation, so I'll at least be able to suport myself financially.

Dude Love Japan · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

-Given my quals as stated above, can anyone say how much I'd get paid at VTC?

BCinHK · Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Hong Kong

AT VTC, shared accommodation means sharing a 2-bedroom apartment with another (foreign) teacher - it would not be suitable for a family. While the apartment building is in Chai Wan (note: not Wan Chai - CW is at the end of the blue MTR line on the north-east side of HK Island), the teaching positions are at each of the affiliated training colleges which are located all over HK, some quite far away in the New Territories. Transportation costs within HK were paid by the teachers when the program started - there was lots of complaining about this, but I don't know if it has changed. You could rent an apartment closer to the college you are employed at, but it would be at your own expense. Two or three years ago there were some postings on this forum about working at VTC.
Perhaps this website will answer some of your questions: http://teachingandjobs.com/job/7865/esl-teachers-needed-in-hong-kong-at-vocational-training-council-vtc/

Anyone who works in HK must have either a permanent ID card (i.e. be a permanent resident of HK) or a visa allowing employment - this applies to volunteer work as well as paid employment. It is illegal to work or receiving schooling/training without a proper visa.

Local kindergartens are privately run. Some may accept a non-Chinese-speaking child, but many won't. Notices, etc. that are sent home with the children and school events will be in Chinese. It can be difficult to communicate with teachers. My children attended local kindergartens and enjoyed them, although they didn't seem to learn much Cantonese.

Dude Love Japan · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

Thanks, BCinHK. I wonder if I should call and see if there's any way I could get a single apt. or a housing allowance or if I should take a chance and try to negotiate it at the interview. As I'm in Seoul it's already a financial gamble for me to go to HK for an interview. I've wanted to get in for years.

Perilla · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 792 Location: Hong Kong

BCinHK · Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Hong Kong

I doubt that you would be able to negotiate any changes to the package offered by VTC.

It's very difficult to get non-Cantonese speaking children into schools in HK. We left HK because my daughter was entering Grade 1 and I couldn't imagine her dealing with all the stress (including 1 - 2 hours of homework each night) that her brother had gone through for 2 years. They were able to get into a local school because they hold Permanent ID, they attended 3 years of local kindergarten, and their Dad is Chinese (although a Mandarin-speaker). Paying for places in an international or direct subsidy school (DSS) would have really affected our family finances - if there were spaces and if the children passed the interviews - so that was not an option.

Here's an article from the South China Morning Post from December 29, 2011. Note: home schooling is illegal in HK and is only approved by the Education Bureau on a case-by-case basis.

No place for expat teachers' son
Teaching couple forced to home school 4-year-old because they can't get him into a kindergarten that teaches in English - and they say the local schools aren't interested
Linda Yeung SCMP Dec 29, 2011

The shortage of international school places has forced a native English-speaking teacher to home school her son for the past two years.

American Jessica Kuwata arrived in Hong Kong with her husband and her then four-year-old son two years ago under the government's native-speaking English teacher (NET) scheme to improve English learning and teaching in local schools.

A primary-school teacher, Kuwata had hoped to put her son in kindergarten so he could socialise with other children, but she was put off by long waiting lists.

She had no luck despite calls to more than 50 international and direct subsidy scheme schools. The Education Bureau provided her with the contact details as a way of helping her to find a solution, she said.

"First we tried Chinese local schools, but they were very pessimistic about their ability to handle our son because none of us had ever lived in a Chinese-speaking country.

They said there were lots of kids in the classroom, and teachers could not instruct my son if he couldn't speak Cantonese."

A school on Lantau Island made Kuwata an offer but withdrew it after realising that the family lives in Tin Shui Wai, outside its catchment area.

An international school kindergarten she approached later had a two- to three-year waiting list, meaning her son would not have been accepted until 2014, at the age of eight.

For the past two years, Kuwata's husband, who is Japanese and a professional teacher, has been homeschooling their child, and had to give up on working. This put the family under "a bit of a financial burden", a frustrated Jessica Kuwata said.

"We were hoping to have a dual income," she said.

"I found my son competing with international and local families who want their kids to have an English-language education because the local schools flat out would not touch us. We are like poison to them. They are not going to take on the burden of dealing with an international family."

Because of his mixed background, her son was recently accepted by the Japanese International School at Tai Po, which only accepts pupils fluent in Japanese. But Kuwata is furious over what she calls a system of segregation that provides little help for non-Chinese speaking families. She said: "How many people in Hong Kong have Japanese nationality and have their problem solved that way?"

Perry Bayer, a councillor with the Native English-speaking Teachers' Association, warns that the problem of school places will deter young NETs with families from coming to Hong Kong. "It is driving away some of our best people," he said.

"When I came 13 years ago, we had NETs with families but for various reasons - particularly the educational reason. It's much rarer to find NETs with families now," Bayer said. "The irony is we are here to educate Hong Kong students and yet, in many cases, we cannot educate our own children in English."

Bayer, a New Zealander, managed to get his son into an English Schools Foundation (ESF) school, but he is worried about rising fees and the uncertainty over the future of the government subsidy for the ESF.

Worsening the situation is the fact that, as discovered by Kuwata, local schools are not really an alternative. "There is a disconnect between what the Education Bureau thinks is happening and what is really happening on the ground.
Direct subsidy schools and local schools cannot be backups," Bayer said.

His association plans to raise the schooling issue with the bureau at a meeting in February or March.

Dude Love Japan · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 111

I posted another reply, don't know what happenned to it. Meanwhile, anyone know VTC's daily/weekly schedule and how many hours are required weekly. Anyhow, I asked for an exception (very eloquently) and I think I could support myself, wife and two daughter even on 20k if we live somewhere inexpensive since I'm debt-free with savings, I could subsidize my income with other work and my wife would be allowed to work (even though she'd probably choose not to). I'm even thinking of getting a mortage and buying a place.

therock · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: China

Joshua2006 · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 342

oxi · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 347 Location: elsewhere

Ditto to Joshua,

I bought the flat I rented and don't have PR.
Mortgage is 4K a month. Previously rent was 8K.

The downside is that everyone is saying prices will fall this year. Hope not, but I'll most likely hang on to it for a few years anyway.