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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 163
Location: Poland
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 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: Arriving in Poznan in mid to late January. Is it too late? |
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Hey everyone,
My wife and I (both American) are planning to arrive in Poznan in mid to late January. We both have a TEFL cert. and 3 years experience from two different countries (Czech Republic and Turkey). We plan to visit Poznan over Christmas and find a flat and then move in January.
Is mid to late January an absolutely terrible time to arrive? Will it be impossible to find work?
Thanks in advance everyone. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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You'll be arriving not long before the spring semester begins (early Feb). So you could definitely pick a worse time.
I'd contact contact some schools BEFORE you arrive so you can line up some interviews, maybe even a job. |
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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 163
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the advice! I wasn't planning to contact any schools ahead of time, but I definitely will now. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Do you need a visa/work permit? As Americans (like me) I'm guessing, yes. You'll need to find a school willing to sort this out for you. It's not impossible, but a hassle. Be aware that many schools will get cold feet when you tell them you need this.
So, if you find a school willing to do it, cling to them like a life preserver! |
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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 163
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, a visa is the number one thing for us. I've heard that it's a bit easier in Poland than other places to get a visa, I hope that that is true. I don't have a degree, but I do have a TEFL and over 3 years of experience. Do you think it will be difficult for me to find a school willing to hire me and help with the visa? |
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john123
Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, extremely difficult, as summarised in previous posts.
Good luck though. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| oipivo wrote: |
| Yeah, a visa is the number one thing for us. I've heard that it's a bit easier in Poland than other places to get a visa, I hope that that is true. I don't have a degree, but I do have a TEFL and over 3 years of experience. Do you think it will be difficult for me to find a school willing to hire me and help with the visa? |
If by 'other places' you mean Western Europe, then yes, it is easier.
What you need to do is convince the school that it will be worth their while to help you - i.e. take on a significant number of teaching hours with them. Perhaps you could even offer to help out with the cost of the visa and work permit. It's not more than $150 USD (for everything) in Warsaw.
I interviewed at five or six schools in Warsaw before I found one that would sponsor me.
The good news is that once you have the work permit, you can work at other schools without getting a second (I'm 99% sure). |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
| The good news is that once you have the work permit, you can work at other schools without getting a second (I'm 99% sure). |
Should've listened to the 1% - you can't. The work permit is granted for a specific job with a specific type of contract. Once something changes (for instance, a new contract, or your job title changes) - you need a fresh work permit. Same goes for every job - you need a work permit for every one. It's because the work permit isn't actually a work permit, but rather a letter from the labour office that confirms that you can offer the person work.
But work permits are free to issue - the only issue is that it requires a bit of effort going to the Urzad Pracy a couple of times and waiting about a month for it to come through.
For Americans - the best bet really is to go self employed. No need then for work permits, which is a massive bonus.
[quote=oipivo] Will it be impossible to find work? [/quote]
Wages and hours are definitely down this year - but it's hard to say whether it'll be impossible to find work. There is still certainly plenty of work out there, but it's certain that you'll have to put up with the horror 7-9am plus 5-9pm split shifts for at least six months. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| For Americans - the best bet really is to go self employed. No need then for work permits, which is a massive bonus. |
Not true. You still need a work permit to get a residency card (i.e. the visa). It's all here under the text attachment for 'Residence permit for a defined period of time on the territory of the Republic of Poland.' I highly doubt it's any different in Poznan: http://www.mazowieckie.pl/portal/en/27/28/Residence_legalization.html
| delphian-domine wrote: |
| Should've listened to the 1% - you can't. The work permit is granted for a specific job with a specific type of contract. Once something changes (for instance, a new contract, or your job title changes) - you need a fresh work permit. Same goes for every job - you need a work permit for every one. It's because the work permit isn't actually a work permit, but rather a letter from the labour office that confirms that you can offer the person work. |
This may or may not be true, but I know several Americans who worked for a second or third school with no work permit. They had no problems.
| delphian-domine wrote: |
| But work permits are free to issue - the only issue is that it requires a bit of effort going to the Urzad Pracy a couple of times and waiting about a month for it to come through. |
Here in Warsaw, they cost 50zl. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
| delphian-domine wrote: |
| For Americans - the best bet really is to go self employed. No need then for work permits, which is a massive bonus. |
Not true. You still need a work permit to get a residency card (i.e. the visa). It's all here under the text attachment for 'Residence permit for a defined period of time on the territory of the Republic of Poland.' I highly doubt it's any different in Poznan: http://www.mazowieckie.pl/portal/en/27/28/Residence_legalization.html |
You certainly shouldn't need a work permit if you're applying on the basis of self employed - in fact, I'd go so far as saying that they're applying the rules wrongly in this case. I've read what you linked me to - and my understanding is that the work permit is only required if the foreigner is applying on the basis of owning a KRS-registered company as opposed to operating as self employed. There is that old agreement between Poland the US that allows each other's citizens to operate as self employed on the same basis as their own citizen - so there should be no requirement for a work permit.
(I'm guessing Warsaw has made you obtain a work permit for your self employment?)
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| Should've listened to the 1% - you can't. The work permit is granted for a specific job with a specific type of contract. Once something changes (for instance, a new contract, or your job title changes) - you need a fresh work permit. Same goes for every job - you need a work permit for every one. It's because the work permit isn't actually a work permit, but rather a letter from the labour office that confirms that you can offer the person work. |
This may or may not be true, but I know several Americans who worked for a second or third school with no work permit. They had no problems. |
They only had no problems because the border guards didn't investigate them. It seems that the law has changed slightly and now the relevant foreigners' offices issue them -
http://www.malopolska.uw.gov.pl/default.aspx?page=Work_permit_for_foreigner_work_in_Poland
But as you can see -
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| Work permit is issued for a specified period of time, not longer than 3 years and may be prolonged. Permits are issued for a specific employer, specific foreigner and in a specific place for a specific work position for a period defined by specific dates. |
If they had been caught by the border guards, they would have received an automatic 1 year ban from the Schengen zone. It's worth pointing out that it's pretty unlikely that any company will go to the effort of getting a work permit for the kind of work that's around in January.
Either way - with them arriving in January, the best bet is for one of them to go self employed and the other to apply for residency on the basis of being married to the self employed person. Most schools aren't going to have full time work available at that time of year - and so it's pretty unlikely that they'll want to mess around with work permits at that time.
There are schools that will turn a blind eye to work permits, of course. |
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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 163
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a ton for the information guys.
I'm a little worried about the visa process since my experience with visas in Prague was less than stellar. We've both wanted to live in Poland for a long time, so we're excited nonetheless. Our hours in Turkey are already pretty terrible (split shifts are the standard at my school), so there should be no surprises there!
Looking forward to finally getting there and getting everything set up. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| (I'm guessing Warsaw has made you obtain a work permit for your self employment?) |
You are guessing correctly. Last year immigration wrote me a letter specifically asking for the new work permit - my old one was valid about one month further.
What's more, immigration even appear to base the length of stay they grant on the expiration date of the work permit. American friends of mine had two-year permits - they were granted two-year karta pobytu's. I had only a one-year permit and received a one-year kp.
Think about it: If kp's were issued based solely on opening a company, any drifter could open a fake business, apply for residency and stay as long as he/she liked. They wouldn't even have to pay ZUS if they froze their business activity.
Not that such a loophole existing would surprise me in Poland. 
Good luck, oipivo. I love the name. Keep in mind that you can take a trip to the Ukraine if you need to 'buy' more time to look for work. But honestly, if you haven't found enough in your initial 90 days, you're probably better off leaving and trying again next fall. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
| delphian-domine wrote: |
| (I'm guessing Warsaw has made you obtain a work permit for your self employment?) |
You are guessing correctly. Last year immigration wrote me a letter specifically asking for the new work permit - my old one was valid about one month further. |
Interesting, interesting - thank you for the information, because it certainly seems as if they aren't interpreting the law correctly. It could be that the law changed - because they were never asked for work permits here. What you quoted is clear - so it could be just yet another example of different offices applying the law differently.
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| What's more, immigration even appear to base the length of stay they grant on the expiration date of the work permit. American friends of mine had two-year permits - they were granted two-year karta pobytu's. I had only a one-year permit and received a one-year kp. |
Which is absolutely ridiculous - the work permit for a self employed person should be for 3 years (the maximum they can give) if anything. Still, it's Poland, and rules seem to depend on who is asking for what 
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| Think about it: If kp's were issued based solely on opening a company, any drifter could open a fake business, apply for residency and stay as long as he/she liked. They wouldn't even have to pay ZUS if they froze their business activity. |
I could be totally wrong here - but I think that freezing your company for any period of time would result in a negative decision next time you applied for the Karta Pobytu. I wouldn't want to risk them denying it on those grounds, anyway.
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| Good luck, oipivo. I love the name. Keep in mind that you can take a trip to the Ukraine if you need to 'buy' more time to look for work. But honestly, if you haven't found enough in your initial 90 days, you're probably better off leaving and trying again next fall. |
I'd go one further and say that 30 days is enough to know if it's happening or not. The big problem is that the "ferie zimowe" (winter holidays) are in the last 2 weeks of January this year - which means that they absolutely need to hit the ground running as soon as they arrive.
Of course guys - when you come - message me and I'll take you around the city to show you where all the language schools are. Doesn't matter if it's in the depths of winter |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
Think about it: If kp's were issued based solely on opening a company, any drifter could open a fake business, apply for residency and stay as long as he/she liked. They wouldn't even have to pay ZUS if they froze their business activity.
Not that such a loophole existing would surprise me in Poland.
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that loophole existed for me in 2007, an American co-worker of mine in 2008 and another in 2009. our school didn't give us the option, it was freelance or nothing so that's what we did. applied for the KP and in the meantime, did all the rest to get the business started. that was it. oh, and of course renew the KP when it expired. years one and two it was valid for 1 year, the third time i renewed my KP it was good for 2 years.
but anyone that has spent enough time on Dave's knows that from one government office to the next in Poland, the laws magically change. heck, even the same office can change depending on who is working that day  |
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oipivo
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 163
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| I'd go one further and say that 30 days is enough to know if it's happening or not. The big problem is that the "ferie zimowe" (winter holidays) are in the last 2 weeks of January this year - which means that they absolutely need to hit the ground running as soon as they arrive. |
Definitely noted. We were able to find a job within two days of arriving in Istanbul, so hopefully we have the same luck in Poznan.
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Of course guys - when you come - message me and I'll take you around the city to show you where all the language schools are. Doesn't matter if it's in the depths of winter
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We just may take you up on that. We can offer beer as a thank you. We're actually coming over Christmas and attempting to find a flat. Where are the best places to live? It seems like everything is pretty well connected.
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| Keep in mind that you can take a trip to the Ukraine if you need to 'buy' more time to look for work. |
That is also extremely helpful, we'll definitely keep that in mind.
Thanks again you guys. I'm excited to get to a country that has decent beer. I'm so tired of the poison that is Turkish beer :/ |
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