| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
robfir
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: Work permit surprise |
 |
|
The company I work for, EIV, want to get me a work permit! They also want me to pay for it though, so I was hoping it would all blow over... But they're being surprisingly persistent about it!
They're telling me that there will be something new in Vietnam come January and that we really really need to get my application rolling. They haven't been the slightest bit specific about what this new thing is though.
Has anyone else been hearing anything unusual? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bobpen
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 89
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The only $0.02c I have to offer is I also recently heard this mumbled when I was applying to a local university, the guy said something like on January 1st everything was going to get more strict. Can't recall exactly but he said that all procedures and enforcement was going to shift from one ministry to another. He said it was "all over" the newspapers (tieng viet, not english) and was a tad surprised I didn't know. I really wish I would have remembered more details (the name of the ministries and such), but at the time I just thought "they've been beating this horse since '05" and thought it was just more typical rhetoric. That was the only school I heard it at and thus since forgot it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: Ministry of Deciet |
|
|
You should not be paying for your work permit, period.
With that said, it is true the cadres in Hanoi have made a decision for this month: tighter controls in the issuing of business visas. To get around this you can either go abroad for a couple of days, or send your passport to HCMC. Yes, I know this is different from the work permit situation, but if they require it they should also pay for it. Again, the double happiness hypocrisy cries out again.
In the end it is up to you and what you feel comfortable with. You cannot let this country dictate terms and conditions to you. You must do this yourself, otherwise you well end up mad.
There are many ways to overcome a wall in front of you. This is no more true than here in Vietnam - Perhaps you could become equally persistent in a rise in salary to compensate for this legal hurdle? I personally see no real benefit to paying taxes, except I get to share a bed with a couple of people on a metal bed in a cockroach infested hospital.
If the company has been 'visited' by govt. officials it means having to declare and justify all company operations (if not a bribe). This means having to declare your earnings. What they are doing is trying to save this cost from your pay packet.
If you want to go this way insist they provide you with a personal income tax number. You can check this yourself by putting your passport number into a Vietnamese govt. controlled website; the name and address of which I forget, or get the firm to supply the paperwork for proof. If they cannot or refuse to provide these you know you are getting scammed. A guy I know had this done to him for nearly two years.
It is highly probable some teachers at this school are still operating under the radar and it lays on your negotiating skills to be able to offset this cost to you, both in taxes and getting a work permit sorted out.
Or, like most, walk across the street and get a better offer from one of the hundreds of 'schools' just waiting for you, wait until they start to become 'clingy' and wash, rinse, repeat.
Good luck in making your decision - If you are here for only a short while just take it all with a pinch of salt and don't pay for the administrative costs of any firm. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tigerstyleone
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
It doesn't matter when you are promised to be treated like a god and earning $20 an hour 10 hours a day. It's paradise, paradise. Right Prof Gringo?
Especially when you are an EFL educator. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Work permit surprise |
|
|
| robfir wrote: |
The company I work for, EIV, want to get me a work permit! They also want me to pay for it though, so I was hoping it would all blow over... But they're being surprisingly persistent about it!
They're telling me that there will be something new in Vietnam come January and that we really really need to get my application rolling. They haven't been the slightest bit specific about what this new thing is though.
Has anyone else been hearing anything unusual? |
Having a work permit is a good thing, no?
With all due respect to the other posters, unless you see something in writing, I wouldn't listen to what someone "heard". This topic has been done 1000 times and no one has been able to provide hard evidence if schools now have to require their teachers to have a WP and visa. This is Vietnam, the waters are murky.
Do you have a contract? What does it say about the WP? Surely you would have read it properly before signing and flying over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
robfir
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, England
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah I was hoping it would all just blow over, I'm really surprised at their sudden enthusiasm for my work permit!
I did read the contract they asked me to sign, but it was about as ridiculous as I expected it to be so I just declined and kept working as usual. That's the outcome I'm hoping for with this work permit... Fingers crossed! What would really suck is if it did become difficult to work in Vietnam without a work permit - I don't have a degree and I didn't get a police check done before I left the UK so it could be extra tricky/expensive. But what Bobpen said about horses sums up my premonitions about the "changes" we'll see next week...
Anyway I've been telling myself that I should swap out of this job and into somewhere with some students who actually want to learn English (I'm in compulsory state schools currently) - what do you all think about my chances of getting into VUS with a CELTA, 6 months experience and no degree? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: Cleverlearn |
|
|
| A friend of mine got into Cleverlearn with only a celta. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Cleverlearn |
|
|
| vabeckele wrote: |
| A friend of mine got into Cleverlearn with only a celta. |
I got a job at a govt. uni with a TEFL     |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tigerstyleone
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
but you cannot get a work permit without a notarized degree.
However you can get a job. The work permit does nothing for you anyway. Its for the school to show the govt. that their teachers are legal so they don't have to pay any fines or bribes. So in the end you make $20 an hour and are treated like a god in paradise paradise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Cleverlearn |
|
|
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| vabeckele wrote: |
| A friend of mine got into Cleverlearn with only a celta. |
I got a job at a govt. uni with a TEFL |
I now only work under a Vietnamese contract with a signed translation into English. Both of my current jobs have me feeling good. Raking in the millions of VND!
But it's so amazing when I realize that many people here make $3,000,000 VND month and I think, damn, that's what I make for working about 2-3 days here. Go to the street and take the bus for $4,000 VND, grab a Coke for $6,000 or a 333 for $9,000 (Yep, it's true you can drink in the street no prob, New Orleans and MardiGras got nothing on Saigon)! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TRH
Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Location: Hawaii
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Work permit surprise |
|
|
| robfir wrote: |
The company I work for, EIV, want to get me a work permit! They also want me to pay for it though, so I was hoping it would all blow over... But they're being surprisingly persistent about it!
They're telling me that there will be something new in Vietnam come January and that we really really need to get my application rolling. They haven't been the slightest bit specific about what this new thing is though.
Has anyone else been hearing anything unusual? |
I don't know what EIV stands for but consider that you may be lucky that your company wants you to get a work permit. What I hear is that the price of regular 90 day visas is coming up. My wife read this to me today while she was web surfing the Viet language press and now she can't find the article again, sorry, but the visa I have for $30 may cost $75 after 01 Jan 13. I could not find this in the local English press but there is usually a lag in the stories of at least a few days.
Like I suspect a lot of us that are married to citizens, I have what is called a 5 year visa exemption but it really is not an exemption at all. It just means I can repetitively pick up (and pay for) 90 day visas at the immigration office instead of having to go to Cambodia and return. Viet Kieu can get this same exemption.
As far as I have heard a work permit costs only 400,000 VND and truly exempts you from the need for a visa for 36 months or the duration of your contract, whichever is less. This is less than what my next 90 day visa alone is looking to be and a whole lot less that three years worth of visas that could cost as much as $900 (75 x 4 x 3)
Here is an actual government web page that sounds like it was written in English; not written first in Vietnamese and then translated. http://www.business.gov.vn/licensedetail.aspx?id=1440&LangType=1033
Robfir: As you have indicated you do not have a Bachelor's degree, number 6 may present a problem for you but why not have an honest talk with your employer and see if they think they can push it through. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
If the authorities made the procedure for getting a work permit clear, transparent, easy and affordable, everyone would have one.
Very simple...
Last edited by sigmoid on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
It is true that things are getting tighter. Where I work they are having a much harder time hiring internationally and getting work permits for new hires.
I have no criticisms of those who work without permits- we all do what we have to do- but it is better to be legal if possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sudz
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just got the message today that January will be my last month - after working at my school for several years - so yes, things are getting tighter (others have just been let go as well).
I've heard things aren't as tight in Hanoi. Any truth to this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mushroom Druid
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 91
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| isabel wrote: |
| It is true that things are getting tighter. Where I work they are having a much harder time hiring internationally and getting work permits for new hires. |
The entire work permit situation is dysfunctional and to be blunt, stupid.
It's been going on since 2006.
| Quote: |
I have no criticisms of those who work without permits- we all do what we have to do- but it is better to be legal if possible. |
I know many people who jumped through all of the hoops, spent lots of time and paid money to get work permits and there was no benefit to them.
It seems the only way to get one - if you even want one - is to work for the large chains that do all of the legwork. There are only 3 schools that do this that I know of and understandably you have to sign a full time contract.
I knew that this dysfunctional WP situation would return. It has.
I have ALWAYS had money saved up to leave VN if necessary.
We'll see what happens. Always be prepare to return home or go to another country on short notice.
It's the nature of EFL in Vietnam. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
