Job Discussion Forums

[dan_lawrence]

George Bush is a native speaker of English. I rest my case.

[JZer]

[hollysuel]

[JZer]

[JZer]

I think a better term would be functional fluency. Meaning whether you can function in the target language without people having trouble understanding you. By functioning, I mean being able to cope with all daily task. If you can do that you are fluent. If you know a language well enough you should be able to use circumlocution to fill in gaps.

Functional fluency also does not mean that you can talk about certain specialized fields. Even native speakers would have a hard time discussing some areas without prior training.

[hollysuel]

[Kootvela]

What's a fluent speaker, then? How much of the language should one get right to be a fluent speaker? If even native speakers make mistakes, does a fluent speaker exist?

Also, as far as slang and idioms are concerned, I don't think this is so important in terms of fluency. These can be learned or looked up when necessary. Even in my native tongue I don't know all the idioms, does that make me less fluent in Lithuanian? Also, how often do we need idioms and slang in speaking? I guess, it depends on the situation, but my guess is that most of the time people need to speak standard language.

[travellingscot]

"If even native speakers make mistakes, does a fluent speaker exist?"

I think the native speakers on this forum,especially those taking part in this discussion, know what we mean when we are talking about fluency and mistakes. If you do not understand what we mean, then does that not underline the difference between us ?
Perhaps slang and idioms can be looked up when writing, but I doubt if a fluent conversation could take place if one of the participants had to stop the flow to consult a dictionary or laptop !
Referring back to a previous point about grammar, I found in Bulgaria that some local teachers insisted on drilling grammar every chance they got, but students oftened complained to me that they did not get enough speaking practice. Through time I realised that in many schools, students were taught mostly grammar with little speaking. This was partly explained by the inability of many teachers to speak English very well, despite their excellent grasp of grammar. I wonder if a similar situation exists in Lithuania [And indeed in other countries] i.e. that students are constantly being told that they need to be perfectly accurate in grammar,and eventually believe this, because many teachers cannot speak well enough to correct speaking mistakes or give a good model themselves ?

[Kootvela]

[john_n_carolina]

[quote="Kootvela"]

[Kootvela]

[quote="johninmaine"]

[spiral78]

I've heard Canadians say 'enlighten me on...' This is not worth nit-picking.

C'mon, people. There is a very useful and highly legitimate role for non-native speaking teachers in many, many teaching contexts.

In Canada, I worked with two professional non-native teachers, who were teaching immigrants to Canada along with us native speakers. This in a university setting, where we taught both professional adults and uni-age students.

It's not ONLY the understanding of the nuances of the language, but ALSO understanding the processes of learning the language. By definition, none of us native English speakers have studied English as a foreign language, though most of us have studied OTHER foreign languages, and, of course, know quite a lot about the processes of learning.


We all have our roles to play in successful language teaching and learning. And Kootvela's obviously a highly skilled and dedicated teacher. I am pleased to work with non-native speakers like her.

[JZer]

[hollysuel]

[Kootvela]

Thank you for your post. I really appreciate that.

Already got 2 job interviews and it's my holidays...baaaaaaaaah.