Job Discussion Forums

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

I happen to believe that a certain level of chaos is healthy.

I do not, however, see it on this thread.

I see a lot of whining. And that is a complete waste of time.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

stillnosheep,

I am in Bahrain now--after 6 weeks in Jordan. Lots of program work to be done, but students are great.

counpk39 · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New York State

Luder · Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 74

All I can say is that I get fairly annoyed when some hoity-toity European responds to an American's innocent post about not being able to work in Europe with the tiresome "I can't work in America; you can't work in Europe." You get it all the time. And it's just not true, particulary the part about the Europeans not being able to work in the States.

In my public high school in the heart of what the French call "l'Am�rique profonde" I had two teachers from Belgium and two from Japan. And at least one of the Japanese was fresh off the boat. They weren't the only foreigners in the school, either. There was a French woman and another Belgian. To top it off, the principal was a six-foot tall Andalusian woman who freely admitted that her model for running the school was the general�simo Francisco Franco. My mother also taught at this school. Though she was an American citizen, English isn't her native language and she wasn't born in one of the fifty states.

For a couple years I had first period with a Belgian teacher. When the pledge of allegiance came on over the intercom we had to stand up behind our desks and put our hand our hearts, but our teacher stayed in her chair looking over her class notes or something. And nobody begrudged her anything. It wasn't her fucking flag. Just let an American try something similar in French or Belgian public school. But what am I saying? It's a moot point. Americans can't teach in French public schools.

EnglishBrian · Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 189

Yes but I think public schools (or state schools as we'd say in the UK) are a whole different ball game. Most countries have reciprocal arrangements where they recognise that if you're a 'real qualified teacher' for regular school in one country, they recognise that qualification in another country (though from reading posts on Dave's I gather there are all kinds of problems for Americans who want to move from one state to another within the US). I had a North American teacher in my school when I was a kid, though I couldn't say if that was part of an international professional exchange programme or whether she'd emigrated to England.

Once you're qualified like that, the world's your oyster to a degree TEFLers can only dream about. In their situation it comes down simply to demand and supply, since public school systems have far more clout in hiring who they want to than a small TEFL outfit. Shortage of teachers in your schools? Simple - bring them in from anywhere providing they can speak the language.

You'll find if North Americans (or others) want to come to the UK to teach in public schools (state schools) in a shortage subject, they'll be welcome with open arms.

counpk39 · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 17 Location: New York State

Luder, There is a program for Americans to teach in French schools through their Ministry of Culture. It is a school-year-long teaching assistant program. From what I've heard, it is a wonderful program with only a dozen hebdomadal teaching hours.

The official URL for the program is here: http://www.frenchculture.org/education/support/assistant/index.html

A recent article written by Kelby Hartson Carr in Transitions Abroad is here: http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0505/teaching_english_in_france_as_an_assistant.shtml

Luder · Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 74

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

31 · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 1797

Didn't know you had o levels in Scotland. You live and learn.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Then went on to A' levels

grahamb · Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 1945

31, you really are a prize merchant banker.

bluffer · Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

Luder,

Seems to me you have an "It's not fair, I can't do what I want" attitude.

Maybe I'm wrong, but a few details.

The CAPES is the standard teaching requirement to teach in the French State system, apart from a few exchange programmes and "vacataire" work.

It is difficult to pass this. Most French Graduates follow a 2 year preparation course before they take the exam which has 3 days of 4 hour exams.

The number of people who pass the CAPES in any subject is restricted to the number of teaching vacancies that the Government identified the previous year.

You need to register to take the exam before a cut-off date the year before you wish to take the exam.

There are lots of French Graduates saying 'Ce n'est pas juste, je ne peux pas faire ce que je veux"

Teachers in State schools are civil servants, fonctionnaires, and until recently only French nationals could become Civil Servants.

Now (some) EU nationals who can show that their qualifications are of an equal status (and length) to French qualifications, can follow the tortuous process of registering to take the CAPES, and then take it the following year.

Some (very few) pass. Most fail, but most French candidates also fail.

Anyone who can obtain a post can teach in the French Private education system.

Posts are available from Primary level to University level.

To obtain a post here you need to find the vacancy,
make the application,
be selected at an interview (in French, naturally),
have the relevent papers necessary to work legally in the country
(This usually includes having a French bank account and French home address)

Any "Foreigner" is handicapped by the process, but that's just the way it is.

There are currently more than 2 000 000 registered unemployed in France - 10% of the working population.
Many of them are highly qualified and capable of working in schools. Even EU Nationals have to face this competition when seeking jobs teaching in the 'Priv�.

Many French students have /had difficulty learning English.
Many English students have/had difficulty learning French

I don't think that is any justification for employing "Native speakers" in any State Education System.

biffinbridge · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years

Going back to dmb's post on page one it seems that one option has so far not been discussed;if North Americans want work in Europe then why don't they just marry European chicks?For starters,they're much better looking,generally much better at conversation and you don't need to spend loads on titanium beds designed for people who shop in 'High and Mighty'.
As for the Ozzies, bring 'em on....-good barmen are hard to find these days but for god's sake stay out of efl.We don't want little Frogs saying ''allo Sheila,I'm going to put zee tinny on zee barbie you pommie bstarrrd'.