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Irish Blood English Heart
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 256
Location: Gosforth, The United Kingdom
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:44 am Post subject: |
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This video is available at www.ogrish.com though I would reccomend that on one watches it unless they are used to such things as ive just thrown up. God I hate this planet. But then again this sort of thing (from both sides) is why I am going to teach in the middle of nowhere in a different world. These people believe they are going to paradise when they die. Hell is far too good for them.
ITs by far the worst thing I have ever seen. |
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MarcusK
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Kadik�y, Istanbul, Turkey
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Some may ask what the difference is between what the Iraqi resistance did to Mr. Berg and what the Western forces did to Iraqi prisoners. The answer is that in both cases the behavior was completely uncivilized and those committing it should answer for it.
But even prior to the "leak" of photos of Westerners abusing prisoners, our governments had started investigations. I believe those who committed inhumane acts to the Iraqi prisoners will be punished. I also believe they would have been punished even if the photos hadn't been leaked to the press.
Does anyone really believe that the Iraqi resistance will act in a civilized manner to investigate and punish its own members for murdering Mr. Berg? |
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MarcusK
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Kadik�y, Istanbul, Turkey
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| ITs by far the worst thing I have ever seen. |
Back when Daniel Pearl was murdered, I watched the video that had been posted of that heinous act. Having seen that one, I have no desire whatsoever to watch this one. Reading the description in the news was quite sufficient for me.
I don't care what anyone says about embracing multi-culturalism... this sort of behavior is just WRONG, and any culture that condones it is BAD. |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I have just this very minute seen on BBC World that there are now pictures of prisoner abuse at the hands of the US in gaols in Afghanistan to appear.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5115970
It seems, then, that this somewhat peculiar US/UK interpretation of the Geneva Convention is perhaps somewhat more widespread than Bush & Co. would like to have us believe. |
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Hector_Lector
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Sawing people�s heads off, electrocuting them, throwing stones at them until they die, injecting them with lethal drugs, burning them alive with napalm, gassing them...
... all very horrible.
Not always available on film.
So, which is the worst?
(Now get into pairs...) |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 10:23 am Post subject: The Dogs of War |
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In war terrible things happen - on all sides. You think the "bad guys" have a monopoly of evil and despicable acts ?
Have people forgotten the horrors that have happened in living memory ?
Rather than focus on these horrors I would urge people to ask some simple questions.
What are the war aims of the allies in Iraq ? Is this war in any way winnable ? If not then why are we there ?
Last edited by scot47 on Wed May 12, 2004 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 10:35 am Post subject: Re: The Dogs of War |
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| scot47 wrote: |
What are the war aims of the allies in Iraq ? Is this war in any way winnable ? If not then why are we there ? |
I think Bush thought it was winnable, but even he must know it isn't now. He must have assumed the Iraqis would welcome the Americans with open arms after the tyranny of Saddam. Now the U.S. can't pull out or they lose face and the country would be in a huge mess if they just leave. The power vacuum would be immense if the Americans just left and the killings would be even worse than they are now. No easy solution that's for sure. |
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Eijse
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Yemen (Aden)
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:00 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by Eijse on Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:03 am Post subject: The End Times |
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"within a generation" I am not sure it is going to take so long. Maybe these crazies who write about "The End Days" and "The Rapture" are right ?
It is all most inconsiderate - I had planned another 4 years here. Drat !
Maybe we will live to see the Battle of Armageddon at Megido in Israel. |
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Eijse
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Yemen (Aden)
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:14 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by Eijse on Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:19 am Post subject: Re: The Dogs of War |
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| Gordon wrote: |
| Now the U.S. can't pull out or they lose face and the country would be in a huge mess if they just leave. The power vacuum would be immense if the Americans just left and the killings would be even worse than they are now. No easy solution that's for sure. |
Then they are way more stupid than I thought (the Administration that is... not all you Yanks!)
This sounds so much like the justification for occupation of N Ireland a campaign which is now in arguably it's 4th century of bloodshed.
Don't any of us realise that that is precisely the justification that the US now have to stay... indefinitely? It's just like the ploy the British use to justify N Irish occupation. "Oh, June 30th", they'll soon say. "No way. Too early. We'll have to see how this thing pans out now their kicking up a fuss and burning the beautiful flag we made them."
If all goes well, the US it out of there by popular demand. If things go badly and could conceivably get far worse if they left, they are sitting pretty so to speak (the Administration... not all you lovely Americans).
Is it too fantastical to believe that elements in the US Administration actually want an unsettled situation in Iraq to justify their continued control of it? |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:40 am Post subject: Re: The Dogs of War |
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| shmooj wrote: |
| Is it too fantastical to believe that elements in the US Administration actually want an unsettled situation in Iraq to justify their continued control of it? |
Very good point, and, no, it of course is not too overly fantastic. Take, as way of further example, their attitude towards the PRC/Taiwan issue, namely that they 'support the current status quo'.
Of course, 'status quo' here can be glossed as 'perpetual tension'.
Did not a famous man once say that in order to conquer one first had to divide? |
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justcolleen
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Egypt, baby!
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: The Dogs of War |
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| Gordon wrote: |
| Is it too fantastical to believe that elements in the US Administration actually want an unsettled situation in Iraq to justify their continued control of it? |
Tom Brokaw (NBC news anchor) summed it up quite neatly when, while narrating the initial air strikes a year and a half ago, he said the United States "willl own" Iraq "in a few days." I believe he referred to Iraq as either "that place" or "that country" - can't remember which, so I'll refrain from quoting. Nevertheless, that was the defining moment for me, when I knew everything to come would be nothing but %&*@, and what it all would truly be about.
For all of you Bush supporters (and I will freely admit I am not, nor have I ever been, one), here's my prediction: We will see our first red terror alert just about the time when Bush has to debate Kerry. Why? Because then all Bush will have to talk about is the only word he can say without Cheney speaking for him - turrurism. Get your gas masks, duct tape, and sheets of plastic now, before the rush, because it's a comin'. Bush will make sure of that.
Colleen |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| If you view the video on the net are you sick? |
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yaramaz
Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2384
Location: Not where I was before
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Dunno about the ethics of viewing, but i can say that I cant watch it without being sick to my stomach... |
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