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Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
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 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, Merlin claimed he was leaving this thread 2 posts ago. He then edited that bit out and came back. So the above epilogue may disappear too!
Ajarn wrote:
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| As for World War II, most, if not all reputable historians, agree that the single most important event influencing the outcome of World War II was the entrance of the U.S. on behalf of the Allies. To this extent, the U.S. saved Europe from what would have been a limited or unlimited victory by Hitler and his henchmen |
Who are these "reputable historians"? I suspect he has made this up. It is simply impossible to point to a single event in that way and say it was the pivotal point in the war. There were many many important events, all as important as, and reliant on, eachother. Actually, a lot of historians (I won't say most or all because like Ajarn, I haven't read the works of every WWII historian)point to the war on the Eastern front as being the conflict that had most effect against the Nazis. Here's what one has to say:
" The German-Soviet war constituted the central military contest whereby Europe's fate would be decided"
Europe, A History. Norman Davies
and this from the USA:
"To laymen in the West, the German-Soviet War was a somewhat obscure, mysterious, and brutal four year struggle between Europe's most bitter political enemies and largest and most formidable armies...
laymen and interested readers alike lack the detailed knowledge and understanding necessary to fit the German-Soviet War into larger context and to understand its regional and global consequences and importance.
Who then is at fault for this unbalanced view? Western historians who wrote on the war from only the German perspective deserve part of the blame." (my italics)
David M. Glantz,
Foreign Military Studies Office, Fort Leavenworth, KS.
Before D-Day was launched, the Russians had already broken the back of the German army in the East ( eg. Battle of Kursk, 1943, where the German Panzer force (East) was all but wiped out) and it was fairly clear that they would win. The history of the German- Soviet war remains obscure, leading many do underestimate its imortance in the defeat of the Nazis in Europe.
It is simply wrong and arrogant to say that the US "saved" Europe from the Nazis. I suggest that anyone who thinks otherwise, should study the subject before making such claims.
Last edited by Cardinal Synn on Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nagoyaguy
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: Aichi, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that the crucial battles on land occurred on the Eastern Front between the Soviets and the Nazis. Dont forget, though, that the Allies made contributions there too through resupply efforts and convoys of military goods to Russia.
It may be more accurate to say that the US saved Europe from the Communists, dont you think? |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Considering that Yahoo News is pro-US, makes at least this poster wonder just how many shenanagins are really going on with the US military presence there.. |
More ignorance from Hugo's golfing buddy. Yahoo news is provided by
��AP
��Reuters
��AFP
��washingtonpost.com
��USATODAY.com
��Los Angeles Times
��Chicago Tribune
��NPR
��U.S. News & World Report
Are you suggesting all these outlests are pro-U.S.?
Yahoo! doesn't have its own team of reporters or editors. It is a search engine. It derives its coverage from what are deemed "wire services." |
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Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Nagoyaguy wrote:
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I agree that the crucial battles on land occurred on the Eastern Front between the Soviets and the Nazis. Dont forget, though, that the Allies made contributions there too through resupply efforts and convoys of military goods to Russia.
It may be more accurate to say that the US saved Europe from the Communists, dont you think? |
That would be a bit more accurate. Western Europe anyway. But it's important not to forget just how big the contribution by Britain and the Commonwealth was. More British and Canadians landed in the D-Day assaults of 6 June 1944 than Americans, for example. It was a joint effort and no single nation should be singled out as having "saved" Europe.
Besides all those eastern European countries that have now joined the EU, probably didn't feel very "saved" if the Velvet Revoloution is anything to go by. |
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Nagoyaguy
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: Aichi, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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But it's important not to forget just how big the contribution by Britain and the Commonwealth was. More British and Canadians landed in the D-Day assaults of 6 June 1944 than Americans, for example. It was a joint effort and no single nation should be singled out as having "saved" Europe.
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Absolutely correct. However, since this had turned into one of the typical anti-American circle jerks, I thought I would keep posting in the same style. The US contribution in materiel was staggering, though. |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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homersimpson:
I can't believe that you actually asked me if all those US publications are pro-US!!!!!????
Don't you see something wrong with your question? |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe that you actually asked me if all those US publications are pro-US!!!!!????
Don't you see something wrong with your question? |
Answering a question with a question is what people who can't answer do! You suggested Yahoo! writes its news. Completely untrue. Yahoo! has no editorial staff. It gets its news from other sources. Then you claim AP and Reuters are "publications." These are not publicatioins. These are wire services which operate internationally and deploy individuals in virtually every country on the planet.
"121 number of countries served by AP." Please name all 121 pro-American countries. |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| No, I said that I did not write for Yahoo News. |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| No, I said that I did not write for Yahoo News. |
Completely missed the point. You couldn't write for Yahoo! News even if you wanted to. Yahoo! does not write its news; it is supplied from wire services AND U.S. publications.
And you suggested the AP and Reuters were U.S. publications. Neither is a publication. Read the "entire" post before answering. |
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moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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I repeat--do not attack me for the article I posted--which was from Yahoo News. I do not write for Yahoo News.
Read the entire post. |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:19 am Post subject: |
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I don't write for the Yahoo News site. Complain to them--they do have a feedback mechanism. Or don't read the thread. BTW, what decent articles have you been posting?
Considering that Yahoo News is pro-US, makes at least this poster wonder just how many shenanagins are really going on with the US military presence there....
I repeat--do not attack me for the article I posted--which was from Yahoo News. I do not write for Yahoo News.
Read the entire post. |
Are you obtuse? I know you don't write for Yahoo! News. NOBODY does. Can't you grasp that concept?
I am not attacking you for an article you posted, I am "attacking" you for being dense. (i.e. AP and Reuters are publications)  |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yahoo News staff choose which articles from US publications and from wire services to include on their site. In this sense many people write for Yahoo News. Moonraven is not one of them.
sns |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Yahoo News staff choose which articles from US publications and from wire services to include on their site. In this sense many people write for Yahoo News. Moonraven is not one of them. |
Are you a dolt? There is NO staff choosing the news. Yahoo! subscribes to wire services and publications and the news is updated in real time (when possible). There are no editors sitting around "deciding" which stories get posted.
In your verve to defend moonraven you failed to do any research.
"Yahoo! News does not write or edit any of the news on our site. If you have comments about the tone, angle, accuracy, or coverage of a story, please address them to the news provider directly. Please identify the provider of a story before you send feedback. To do this, look at the upper-right side of the news page where you read the story. You'll see a graphic identifying the provider. Below are contact email addresses for all of our news providers." |
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