Job Discussion Forums

[funkystuff]

[forest1979]

Funkystuff...

So,you'd be an instructor. Apart from CV value the CELTA cert has basically no value in Taiwan.

On the subject of any potential applications from you look closely at any advertisements. Are you applying to a department or a language center? If it's an application to a center then in the running of a uni it's got as much admin status as the print office or cafe! In effect, it could be closed at a whim, if need be. Not that this is likely to occur. In a department security is much stronger. So, look carefully at the small print!

[BJ]

If I was you I wouldnt move as your on as much were you are as you would get here IF you could get a FT uni gig with a masters, and that is a big if. The attitudes of the MOE and universities are changing, ENglish centres are becomeing more common as the birth rate falls, nearly every university in Taiwan has a languages department, there was an explosion of them, but these days they are in decline.

This year alone we have 3 FT PHd in ENglish TESOLs returning to the college, all chinese.

If youhave a Phd then there are places for you as you may notice from this thread alone;)

[funkystuff]

[forest1979]

There are examples of people with PhDs in Agricultural engaging in TEFL at unis in Taiwan. However it is increasingly becoming the norm for unis to WANT (not require) people with a PhD in language or education. Whereas five years or so ago a professorship could be had with a degree in more or less any field, there's a 'specialisation' taking place in the recruitment process, in part because there's more PhD holders and departments/ELCs can be more picky. Bottom line though: If they WANT a PhD holder with TEFL/education and can't get that, the next best option...any subject...suffices! Why? Because on the uni admin forms they just state number of PhD holders, not their fields.

[773]

[forest1979]

It's true. Face and admin forms rule the day. 5-10 years ago your basket weaving or cookery PhD was more than enough to get a TEFL professorship, such was the demand for native speakers of English. Today, well it still happens, but is less likely too due to more and more PhD holders being on the island. Instead, Education and TESOL PhDs are now sought after by employers, e.g. see advert posted by Miyazaki earlier within this thread.

If you speak to people who have been on Taiwan for 20 or so years they will tell you that once a MA in basket weaving was enough to TEF at a uni.

[mandalayroad]

Has it gotten to the point that Taiwan salaries in TEFL are equal of below Thai salaries? If it has then why would anyone work in Taiwan TEFL unless they were in Taiwan primarily to learn Mandarin? I lived in Taiwan for two years and liked it a lot but Thailand has Taiwan beat in so many ways I can't imagine many people taking much time to decide between the two.

[forest1979]

Mandalyroad....

Calm down!

No one in this thread has either said or hinted at Thai salaries being higher than Taiwan. If you check this thread you'll see the numbers given for Thai salaries are as low as about 25% of a wage in a bushiban or at a university (in an instructor post) in Taiwan. All the thread has said is that the value of a Taiwanese wage is not what it used to be (see numerous comments by BJ on this), and consequence salaries don't have the saving purchase they once had, and Taiwan as a TEFL destination has lost is competitive edge. Hence its been suggested that Taiwan salaries are "appalling low".

[mandalayroad]

Adjusted for cost of living, how does Taiwan's salaries stack up with Thailand's? From what I've read above, it seems that it is now very difficult to save much money in Taiwan due to the high cost of living with no recent salary increases, nor much hope of one on the horizon. If living in both countries means saving no money then why would someone go to Taiwan to teach when Thailand is available (except, of course, one is learning Mandarin)?

[Miyazaki]

Taiwanese university language centers still hire people with master's degrees and some put Ph.D holders' CVs straight into the wastebasket. they want Master's degree holders for language center jobs.

in fact, don't be surprised to see old-timer foreign staff with only B.A. degrees in Math or home economics as Directors or Assitant's to the President! yes, you will come across certain people with only B.A. degres not only teaching in Taiwanese universities but also in positions that carry quite a bit of administrative juice. And the people they are direct supervisors for hold Ph.D degrees and are published in the field.

[JZer]

[forest1979]

Miyazaki: "Taiwanese university language centers still hire people with master's degrees and some put Ph.D holders' CVs straight into the wastebasket. they want Master's degree holders for language center jobs."

As I have stated before as has become apparent in the past couple of years or so what MAs that are being recruited are local people on staff, not faculty contracts. Can you prove though that they are putting PhD holders cvs straight into the bin? I think you'll find it's quite the opposite, as BJ has said.

"in fact, don't be surprised to see old-timer foreign staff with only B.A. degrees in Math or home economics as Directors or Assitant's to the President! "

Ah, so you've trawled through MCU's ELC staff website? Well if so, the person in question left in early 2007, and was assistant to the President as she is fluent in Chinese - a translator for APEC - and was a go-between for the local and the large numbers of foreign staff. Hence her position. Personally I think such a person in such a position was forwarding thinking - it resolved a lot of issues foreign staff might normally encounter elsewhere in Taiwan. And she was a MA holder. Its impossible to get a job with a BA alone under present MoE regulations.


Mandalayroad - I would think a wage of US$400 a month is largely incomparable with a US$2000 wage in Taiwan. Rises in the cost of living or not in Taiwan, there is still only so much a person can save on $400. Also, are you seriously implying no one can save money in Taiwan on a wage of $2000? Do you mean inflation is so high that people's basic costs are that much now? According to The Economist inflation will be 2.6% for Taiwan in 2008, for Thailand it has touched over 4% so far. Doesn't this contradict your argument? What might be a better argument is to say that the underlying strength of Taiwanese wages is better eroded by the falling value. However by 2012 The Economist predicts 28 NT$s to 1 US$. So, better value!


JZer: "If one is smart enough and motivate enough to earn an M.A. then they are intelligent enough to learn that information on their own. Furthermore one can attend conferences and learn about different teaching methods."

Too damn right!!! However how many people attend conference and are motivated to learn imperative things to increase their chances of university employment? Few!

Additionally, you dont need a PhD to work in a ELC. But from an admin form perspective PhDs are needed. In classroom terms it's sheer overkill.

[mandalayroad]

Isn't 30,000 baht considered an average monthly salary in Thailand? If so, then that would be a little over $900 per month.
I haven't been to Taiwan in quite a few years, but my impression upthread was that TEFL teachers were finding it hard to save much money living in Taiwan beyond an air ticket home at the end of their contract.
If there is no room to save money in either Taiwan or Thailand, then I imagine most people would choose Thailand as a teaching destination due to its more desirable living arrangements.

[forest1979]

1. 30,000 Thai Baht = NT$27,500 = less than 45% of average bushiban salary.

2. Be careful of making assumptions. They are often wrong.

3. Salary stats (from another thread).

In Korea - average salary 2.2 million won, saving 1 million won per month (saving about $1000. per month) = $12000 savings/year


In Japan - average salary - 250, 000 yen, saving about $300-$500 = $3600-$6000 savings/year

In China - average salary - $700 u.s. per month, saving about $200 per month = $2400 savings/year


In Taiwan - average salary - about $1900 per month, saving $800 per month = $9600 savings/year


In Vietnam - average salary - about $1300 per month, saving $500 per month = $6000 savings/year


In Thailand - average salary - about $900 u.s per month, saving about $300 per month = $3600 savings/year.