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Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

But intelligence is not the ONLY factor. Add to that, overcoming fear, desire, effort, etc, etc

Iceman33 · Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Posts: 91

steki47 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject:

It's interesting how dividing and divisive this question can become. Some have made the effort, some haven't. As much as we all love the languages we've learned, and wish others would learn them, it IS really down to a personal choice, usually based on cost/benefit analysis.

And English teachers shouldn't necessarily have any more responsibility to learn the local language than any other expat.

The results seem to speak for themselves- like other expats, English teachers seem to learn the language when it has benefits, and not when it doesn't. Same as everybody else.

Maybe those of us who have sometimes made the "not going to work to hard at it" choice should be more defensive or ashamed about it, according to the "you should always make the effort" crowd.

Part of what you're all seeing, though, is comfort with our choices. Most of us who are long term expats have made the effort, a time or two. And most of us who are honest long term expats, if we've been in a number of different countries, have sometimes chosen not too.

I speak Spanish. Because I love it, and because I've spent 10 years, give or take, where it is spoken. I speak it well, still read a lot in it.

I spoke intermediate Italian when I was there. But it's been long enough, and I haven't had too many chances to use it. Now I struggle to say ANYTHING in Italian. Which stinks, because I worked awfully hard for the 6 months that I was there, planning to stay. Maybe this has taught me that it isn't worth too much effort to pick up languages except as a long term investment.

I've also chosen, and I take responsibility for this, NOT to bother too much about learning languages that I wouldn't used after a fixed period, and probably wouldn't keep. Just didn't seem worth it.

It's not that those who don't learn a given language are missing something, or disrespecting a country. THey're just busy folks, who like busy folks everywhere, make decisions about what to do with their free time.

Best,
Justin

NoExit · Joined: 01 Sep 2010 Posts: 15

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject:

Iceman33 · Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Posts: 91

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:25 pm Post subject:

Types of verbal intelligence. Maybe. Not sure what that would be though. I am sticking to my music/language hypothesis. I may not have one shred of real evidence, but I've met and taught so many gifted musicians who were language whizzes as well that I have a mountain of circumstantial evidence!

Iceman33 · Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Posts: 91

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject:

We're both stuck then!

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

I've had the opportunity to interact with a large number of college students of Chinese origin while in the United States. Most are proficient in English, but really do not excel in it. They have strong accents, don't understand common speech all that well, sound bookish, don't have a knack for the slang, etc. They speak by-the-book, passable English and that's it, even after years in the country. They are, almost to a one, students of scientific or mathematical majors.

On the other hand, I went to China once and met a bunch of young journaliststs and journalism students. Most had not lived in a Western country, though they may have visited or studied for as much as a year. I was blown away. These people spoke and understood English REALLY well.

So I do believe there is an aptitude issue, with some people having high verbal abilities. What I don't know is how much of it depends on there truly being a difference in ability and how much is a question of interest/preference. When I was young I felt that I was "bad at" math and science, but when I was many years out of college and tried once again to study a bit in those areas I did not find them difficult. I think that as a youth I didn't have the maturity to apply myself to topics I didn't like. And I think a lot of the students who study overseas enjoy math/science but aren't big fans of language, so they feel "good enough is good enough" and they spend most of their time hanging out with others who share their native tongue.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject:

I find that interest, motivation and enthusiasm all desert us when it becomes clear that there is no real ability to support such feelings...

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

When I first moved to the Netherlands, the government offered (semi-mandatory) Dutch lessons for all prospective citizens. It was super cheap, something like 50 euro for 6 hours weekly for the entire year.

They gave a 'language aptitude' test to all candidates, and depending on your score, you were placed in faster/slower classes.

The test was entirely based on pattern recognition.
Patterns involved all kinds of items, from numbers to shapes to words to concepts....

I'm not convinced that's the key, but pattern recognition probably is one important key.

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

You know how the Dutch are, though.