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American vs. Birtish English
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
Just as Japanese is not called "Japanese Japanese" and French is not called "French French".


Despite the other countries you listed, the Japanese language is generally seen as "belonging" only to Japan. Likewise, there is no "Norwegian Norwegian".

While I'm at it, I can remember a couple of Brits getting quite upset when I explained in Nova kid's training that the curriculum was based on American English.

I can also remember the not-so-bright American lady who opined, "Well, of course, all of the teachers should speak American English!".
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kionon wrote:
OneJoelFifty wrote:
Sashadroogie wrote:
Imperialist pots and kettles calling each other black? Ha! The anglophones at play! Or is that 'on' play...?


IN play.


Bah, I think this whole conversation is overplayed.


Replayed.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steki47 wrote:
nightsintodreams wrote:
Just as Japanese is not called "Japanese Japanese" and French is not called "French French".


Despite the other countries you listed, the Japanese language is generally seen as "belonging" only to Japan. Likewise, there is no "Norwegian Norwegian".

While I'm at it, I can remember a couple of Brits getting quite upset when I explained in Nova kid's training that the curriculum was based on American English.

I can also remember the not-so-bright American lady who opined, "Well, of course, all of the teachers should speak American English!".


They use American books for teaching Mexicans how to live in the US I remember thinking that many of the books made America look dangerous and unfreindly and I wondred if it was deliberate to stop Mexicans immigrating? Wink There's lots about crime I remember but most Japanese students didn't seem to notice muych. Shocked
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In truth, there is really no such thing as 'Britain'. There is England and its annexed territories. The term 'Britain' was concocted to make the subjugated Celtic types feel like they had a stake in Britannia Inc. by harking back to the glory days Romano-Celtic civilization.

So, perhaps we should dispense with this British English nonsense and just get straight to the heart of the matter: English English!
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Teacher wrote:
I remember thinking that many of the books made America look dangerous and unfreindly and I wondred if it was deliberate to stop Mexicans immigrating? Wink


In any case, it didn't work. Hmmm, maybe we need to teach them words such as "sniper" and"guntower". Bit OT, but just saying.
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VinnyG.



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Older sources Reply with quote

To add a bit of historical background. In 1735 an Englishman named Francis Moore described Savannah, Georgia as " It stands upon the flat of a Hill; the Bank of the River (which they in barbarous English call a bluff) is steep...." [Printed in Voyage to Georgia, Begun in theYear 1735 published in London, 1744). So already American English is being looked down upon.

But let's look at what Jonathan Swift had to say about English grammar in general in his Proposal for Correcting, Improving, and Ascertaining the English Tongue in 1712 wrote that "our langauge is extremely imperfect," and "that it offends against every part of grammar." One of my favorite quotes is, "I have never known this great town [London] without one or more Dunces of Figure, who had credit enough to give rise to some new word, and propogate it in most conversations though it had neither humor nor significany." [Note Swift's spelling of humor.]

Granted Swift also wrote in the same pamphlet, "I see no absolute necessity why any language should be perpetually changing."

There are many examples when people refer to American English, it is actually preserving an older version of British English while the latter has moved on. One simple example. American English often refers to a deck of cards which was also British English long ago. But now more likely than not, the British will refer to a pack of cards.

Like Swift, I would like to make a modest proposal. When you hear the unusual accent of pirates in movies, that is close to the accent of parts of Devonshire in England. I propose we all learn this accent and teach it in all English classes in Japan until kids all across the country sound like Long John Silver.
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
nightsintodreams wrote:
If I say "I'm from Devon" the response is usually Daburin?. If I say I'm from the UK or Great Britain, I'm generally met with blank stares. So I generally just say I'm from Igirisu.


Ah, Devon. I used to have an athletic shirt from a fake naval academy which was fictionally located in Devon.

I had a coworker from Cardiff once who was something of a Welsh nationalist, and the idea that he was from "Igirisu" drove him insane.


It wasn't a Dartmouth shirt was it?
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Kionon



Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
It wasn't a Dartmouth shirt was it?


No, it was from an SciFi book series.

Also Dartmouth is one of the US's premiere universities. Part of our Ivy League.

I do have a Yale shirt, as I looked into pursuing my PhD there. I'd still go... if I could ever afford it and it didn't affect my pursuit of Japanese permanent residency...
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nowhere near as chic as this t-shirt, I'll wager!

http://www.zazzle.com/what_would_stalin_do_t_shirt-235905308917160236

Or even this one:

http://www.zazzle.com/socialists_spreading_the_wealth_shirt-235560276098453665
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Mr_Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is this Birt, and why has he had such influence on English?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ernie's brother?
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ZennoSaji



Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 87
Location: Mito, Ibaraki

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At* America.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On America
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king kakipi



Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:

British English
India 125,226,449
Pakistan 88,690,000
Nigeria 79,000,000
England 59,600,000
Scotland
Whales
Northern Island
Bangladesh 29,398,158
Egypt 28,101,325
France 23,000,000
Australia 17,357,833 (Meh Ok maybe they might call it Australian English, but lets be honest it�s basically British English with a bit of Australian slang)
The Netherlands 14,000,000
Poland 11,000,000
South Africa 13,673,203
Spain 12,500,000



Didn't know "Whales" spoke British English but maybe they should learn Japanese or Norwegian so they could say "please don't slaughter me for scientific purposes/dinner".................... Wink
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern Island? Thule? Very Happy
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