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Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
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 Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Are the 2 photos the sum total of the membership of this organisation?
Do we know any of these characters? I mean do any of them post on here (if you get my gist)? |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject: Seconds out... |
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I disagree that "Rule Britannia" is "meaningless": it seemed rather popular over in Portugal recently, along with that other traditional football anthem, the theme from "The Great Escape".
Me go to the Proms? I'd buy an Ibrox season ticket before I stooped that far.
Strongly-held beliefs do not necessarily imply prejudice. As much as I love seeing the Auld Enemy take a doing at any sport, I do not condone Anglophobia per se. Go back to my earlier postings on this thread and you'll find that confirmed.
As for racist language, I was merely quoting a little ditty that's sung by those jolly England fans whenever they land on continental Europe. I don't subscribe to that view at all. But why should I? I'm not one of them.
If support for the UKIP isn't evidence of Europhobia then what is? Why the concern about immigration? What's wrong with a bit of fresh blood? Aintcha never seen the duellin' banjos scene from "Deliverance"? The sooner we're all mongrels, the better.
No, my time in England wasn't hell. I had a hell of a good time. Hell, I even got horizontal with a few Englishwomen.
Chubby Brown's from Cleveland. I don't know if that counts as being part of England. You know, the old north/south divide.
Atomic Kitten? I'm not that young. Cliff Richard? I'm not that old.
David Beckham? What has the poor b*gger done to deserve all the flak he gets? If only we had a player or two like him.
Little England is alive and well. Have a look at the Daily Mail and the Torygraph.
Re Northern Ireland, the links are there for all to see, if they care to see them. |
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Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Seconds out... |
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| grahamb wrote: |
| If support for the UKIP isn't evidence of Europhobia then what is? |
It's a vote for the main parties to stop treating us like we don't count and for Europe to stop wasting tax payer money (I should know I'm responsible for spending plenty of it on my state funded trips). If that is Europhobia then so be it.
| grahamb wrote: |
| Why the concern with immigration? |
I don't know - you introduced the topic - you have the problem with 'white settlers'. I simply made an observation of why many Irish have a problem with Europe I did not say these were my views. Try to read in future please.
The rest of your drivel has been addressed before. Don't try to wriggle out of your offensive stereotryping of the English. It's easy to say 'Oh but some of my best friends are English.' You have still not explained your 'Little Englander'.
And you still bang on about Northern Ireland. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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The UKIndependence Party wouldn't be my party of choice to change policy on a European level. I've just read that they've appointed to the EC's committee on women's rights and gender equality a man who thinks that maternity leave should be abolished.
Not only does this go against all European policy on women's employment rights, it also smells of reactionary policy "through the back door". (Hope you appreciate the reference!) If they had made clear their policies before the Euro elections, I wonder if they'd have done so well.
Personally, I wouldn't trust such a slimeball as Robert Kilroy-Silk - his rather well documented racist views should have no place in mainstream politics. |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject: Some of my best wives are English. |
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Temper, temper, Russell.
You mentioned having an English wife, so why shouldn't I mention my English pals? I think it's entirely relevant to my argument.
I don't have a problem with English people as a whole - just the arrogant ones. I also have a problem with Scots who push drugs, get drunk and behave violently.
I'm not wriggling. Read my earlier postings on this thread. Anyway, the English have plenty of stereotypes of other nationalities -"Frogs", "Krauts", "Argies", not to mention the "Wogs" - so what's wrong with a taste of your own medicine? Do you expect us north Britons to just lie down and take it?
Little Englander: thinks England is God's gift to humanity; xenophobic and racist; invariably middle class and a WASP (white, Anglo-Saxon protestant) to boot. Generally support the Conservative Party, but a lot of them recently voted for (guess who?) the UKIP. They're a bit concerned about all those bally foreigners, old boy.
Re. the European Union and taxpayers' money - isn't that a rather hackneyed tune? HM Govt was squandering money long ere we joined the EU. It still is.
Your refusal to accept the links between Scotland and Northern Ireland is the reason why I keep mentioning the subject. It's a historical fact, so why deny it?
Over to you. |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:26 pm Post subject: UKIP |
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| Just read Teacher in Rome's posting. And to think that Russell actually voted for Killjoy's band of merry misogynists! |
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Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
The UKIndependence Party wouldn't be my party of choice to change policy on a European level. I've just read that they've appointed to the EC's committee on women's rights and gender equality a man who thinks that maternity leave should be abolished.
Not only does this go against all European policy on women's employment rights, it also smells of reactionary policy "through the back door". (Hope you appreciate the reference!) If they had made clear their policies before the Euro elections, I wonder if they'd have done so well.
Personally, I wouldn't trust such a slimeball as Robert Kilroy-Silk - his rather well documented racist views should have no place in mainstream politics. |
I certainly don't support that but the European Parliament is getting what it deserves. When the money wasting stops and the parties that can make a difference decide to give me a choice I'll vote differently in Europe. Until then anything that makes them sit up and take notice of the inefficiency of Europe is fine with me. |
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Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Some of my best wives are English. |
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| grahamb wrote: |
I'm not wriggling[ ]. Read my earlier postings on this thread. [I have - you are still a racist] Anyway, the English have plenty of stereotypes of other nationalities -"Frogs", "Krauts", "Argies", not to mention the "Wogs" - so what's wrong with a taste of your own medicine? Do you expect us north Britons to just lie down and take it? |
I'm not sure you live in the same Scotland as me. I hear distastful stereotypes used by my fellow Scots (including you - there is no need for it on here) regularly. These people are not English they are fellow Scots. You are trying to emphasise differences that just are not there. What makes it worse is that you are now trying to qualify previous statement in the thread! I have never criticised the English; individuals yes, as a group or parts of a group never. You on the other hand can't help yourself.
| grahamb wrote: |
| Little Englander: thinks England is God's gift to humanity; xenophobic and racist; invariably middle class and a WASP (white, Anglo-Saxon protestant) to boot. Generally support the Conservative Party, but a lot of them recently voted for (guess who?) the UKIP. They're a bit concerned about all those bally foreigners, old boy. |
Bit like yourself then from the story you've said so far in this thread. Just sub Scotland for England. You really have some serious issues. Move into the 21st Century before you get completely left behind. You keep coming out with your own xenophobic drivel and think its funny  . I am as pro Europe as the next person but the Brussells cash cow has to stop. A wake up call is what the politicians need and that's what they are getting.
| grahamb wrote: |
Your refusal to accept the links between Scotland and Northern Ireland is the reason why I keep mentioning the subject. It's a historical fact, so why deny it?
Over to you. |
I don't deny the links - never have - your failure to read the messages I write correctly is a bit concerning. I'm afraid you seem to be the one in denial - denial of the 21st Century and the English.
This is a football thread and I bow to your superior knowledge of British football in the 20th Century. I live in the 21st century and football like many things in life is somewhat different. I'm not saying we are at the end of the road but Ireland as far as fotball is concerned has changed out of all recognition North, South, East and West. The Old Firm is not what it was - the Premiership in England has taken over big time. It's a fact - no discussion on that I'm afraid. |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:53 am Post subject: Ho, hum. |
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Russell, here are my words from an earlier posting: "Honest criticism's one thing, Hector, but crude insults are uncalled for. The English are not God's gift to humanity, but then neither are we."
Be honest: are these the words of an insane Anglophobe?
I can't be a Little Englander - I'm not English, nor am I a protestant or middle class, racist or xenophobic. I don't have a problem with incomers as such - just the arrogant ones who think their very existence is a blessing to us peasants.
You say that "This is a football thread". It developed into a political argument ages, nay, pages ago, and you and I have been its most active participants. Here we are on page 10, still arguing about politics - how come it's taken you so long to complain?
Ireland hasn't changed as much as you or I would like: the hatred is still there. It's not so long ago that loyalists were stoning children on their way to primary school. A lollipop lady even refused to escort them across the road because they were Catholics. So much for peace and progress.
I do live in the 21st century: I don't sing songs about ruling the waves or beating the dreaded huns.
You condemn me for slating the English one day and then you have a go at me for "denying" them the next! If I'm guilty of one offence, how can I be guilty of the other? Perhaps you should get a job at the National Stadium, because you seem to like moving the goalposts.
The Old Firm has never been anything other than a story of two big fish in a very small pool, regardless of Celtic's European Cup win. Of course the English Premiership is far superior to the Scottish Premier League: the latter is a shambles! Have you only just realised that? If that's your strongest argument, perhaps it's time you called it a day. |
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Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Ho, hum. |
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| grahamb wrote: |
| I can't be a Little Englander |
YAWN - I Didn't say you were. Read again.
| grahamb wrote: |
| are these the words of an insane Anglophobe? |
You are being very selective.
| grahamb wrote: |
| You say that "This is a football thread". It developed into a political argument ages, nay, pages ago, and you and I have been its most active participants. Here we are on page 10, still arguing about politics - how come it's taken you so long to complain? |
I have pointed out previously that I am not disputing the strong links using other criteria but I am contesting that the FOOTBALL link is still anything like as strong. It isn't due to the English Premiership. Really there is no discussion on that front. Take a trip to Ireland and the pubs are better kitted out for Premiership football than English ones. It's true - I can go to a pub in England and be the only one watching a Liverpool game. In Portlaoise you need to be in the pub well before to get a decent view.
| grahamb wrote: |
| Ireland hasn't changed as much as you or I would like: the hatred is still there. |
There are still plenty of angry young men - plenty in my family but they are getting pretty long in the tooth. All I get these days when I'm over there is complaints about Europe, the Euro and asylum seekers.
| grahamb wrote: |
| It's not so long ago that loyalists were stoning children on their way to primary school. A lollipop lady even refused to escort them across the road because they were Catholics. So much for peace and progress. |
That's what you get when an island is unnaturally torn in half.
| grahamb wrote: |
| You condemn me for slating the English one day and then you have a go at me for "denying" them the next! If I'm guilty of one offence, how can I be guilty of the other? Perhaps you should get a job at the National Stadium, because you seem to like moving the goalposts. |
Your denial of them as people who, on the whole are pretty decent these days compared to the imperialistic types you keep bumping into, and not typified by the stereotype picture you'd have us believe. You really must mix in the wrong circles.
| grahamb wrote: |
| The Old Firm has never been anything other than a story of two big fish in a very small pool, regardless of Celtic's European Cup win. |
True but compare Scottish football over the years and in terms of competition it compares very favourably with most of the top leagues. The fact is there is a relatively competitive league south of ther border. A British league would be good for all of us. The Spanish, German and Italian leagues seem to be getting more competitive these days. So a British league would sort things out nicely thank you. |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: A league of their own. |
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"That's what you get when an island is unnaturally torn in half."
At least we agree on something.
A British League? Are you Tony Banks in disguise?!? Such an affair would be simply yet another London-based institution. It's a question of simple arithmetic. That would most certainly not sort things out nicely thank you. (cf the political union of the two countries, which saw the smaller absorbed by the larger). If, as you suggest, the Scottish league's already competitive, there's no need to merge, is there? |
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Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: A league of their own. |
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| grahamb wrote: |
| Such an affair would be simply yet another London-based institution. It's a question of simple arithmetic. That would most certainly not sort things out nicely thank you. (cf the political union of the two countries, which saw the smaller absorbed by the larger). If, as you suggest, the Scottish league's already competitive, there's no need to merge, is there? |
Our leagues were competitive and outside of the Old Firm it still is can be but the shambolic way it's run is an embassment. The Jags-Caley fiasco is just one example. The Old Firm need to be playing teams that give them competition. Apart from Europe they just don't get that. Our football is in financial ruin so unless we do something radical soon there won't be any teams left.
We already have two English teams playing in our league. Gretna have held their own in the third - they came from the Unibond Northern league which is level 6 to 7 of the English league. Berwick is quaint but compare it to non-league Carlisle and the difference is clear. Celtic and Rangers are only as many place ahead of Gretna as ManU and Arsenal are ahead of teams at the bottom of the new English Championship. The best Welsh teams don't play in the Welsh league which is very competitive. Cardiff and about 5 or 6 other teams play in the English pyramid. Why not us?
A BPL and British Championship below that with the English and Scottish Championship starting at the level below that would be excellent. This would mean The Old Firm would get the competition they need, the New Firm would probably get to play decent English opposition, although I fear they are so far behind now that they might not survive. That said the prospect of seeing Leeds, Sunderland West Ham etc for Hearts, Dons, and United fans is bound to bring the crowds back. We have to face it English football is on a high (and I don't mind admitting I love it), crowds are up and the entertainment is as good as it's been in living memory. The only problem is the competition at the top is not what it was. So, a British league is the answer. This would also revitalise the rare breed the decent Scottish footballer. We are only famous for grumpy managers and pundits at the moment.. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| So why aren't the old Firm allowed to join the English league? Would they get automatic 'promotion' to the premiership or have to start lower down? I once read that the unofficial reason that they haven't joined is because the police are worried about X thousand Scots going south every weekend and causing problems and hooliganism and riots not unlike the 70s would return to our shores |
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Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
| So why aren't the old Firm allowed to join the English league?Would they get automatic 'promotion' to the premiership or have to start lower down? |
This is the problem, right now they don't need us, especially the Premiership clubs. It could well mean starting in the Championship. The clubs there would welcome the income and it would give the Old Firm a challenge. The downside would be a year or two out of Europe but then that would give the Scottish cup a new lease of life.
| dmb wrote: |
| I once read that the unofficial reason that they haven't joined is because the police are worried about X thousand Scots going south every weekend and causing problems and hooliganism and riots not unlike the 70s would return to our shores |
I don't think this is a decent reason but that's the police for you. The recent meetings in Europe went fine, Wembley 77 is a distant memory and the English clubs have made major advances in recent years in ensuring hooligans take societies problems elsewhere. The success of schemes operated by Cardiff, Stoke, and Millwall show that even clubs synonymous with hooliganism in years gone by can rid themselves of the image. There will always be some trouble when you get 10s of thousands of people together but thankfully football gets propotionately far less than Greek holiday resorts and town centres on Friday and Saturday nights. |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: Correction |
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Russell, Wembley '77 involved the dismantling of the goals and the removal of the playing surface. Not exactly first degree murder, and certainly not comparable to the antics of England's finest.
I can't see fans rushing north of the border to see our teams. Attendances are already pathetic: just look at the Edinburgh and Dundee derbies. And as for Aberdeen...
A British league will only marginalise Scottish clubs, and the dearth of decent Scottish players will continue as long as there are youth leagues with teams of eleven playing on full-size pitches. If the SFA had any sense, they'd bring in a hit squad from the Netherlands to sort things out at grass roots level. Then again, the SFA haven't got any sense, so we may as well campaign for world peace instead. |
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