Job Discussion Forums

[Bindair Dundat]

(Please don't take this as criticism of your efforts, Mr. K., as it is directed at a number of participants in this thread and other threads, and not at you.)

An observation:

If you call ONE PERSON a nasty name or otherwise offer personal criticism, it is called an "ad hominem" argument, an attack, abuse, etc.

But if you call 290 million of my American brothers and sisters a name, you somehow think you are within your rights as a member of civil society.

*WRONG.*

Just a friendly reminder.

BD

[The Red Baron]

What a self-righteous little............"thing".............you are BD....what have you been calling Chinese people recently??..................or doesn't that count?

[waxwing]

The meaning behind the term 'ad hominem' is not specific to one or many people. The idea is that you are attacking the person when what you should be attacking is the logic or factual basis of the argument.
Thus if someone said 'americans are wrong about Iraq because they are fat' it would be ad hominem, but saying all Americans are ignorant, lazy and fat or whatever - the term ad hominem doesn't apply there, it's simply an insult, racism or whatever you want to call it.

Thus your observation was .. ahem .. non sequitur

[Will.]

OK,
Let's forget the one-up-personship and the freedom of speech debate and the mudslinging and see if it is possible to get back on the thread and answer a few questions as the moderators in their wisdom have allowed it to proceed.
Anything else changed in the USof A since you were last there? Is there a particular phrase that has arisen or been adopted that has caught your attention and has you beaming ...or cursing?
Do people stand up and offer you a seat on public transport. Do you?
How is the American culture progressing?
How do feel about not being able to smoke in a restaurant anymore?
Just a few ideas to get things moving again and perhaps ease the social insertion of Zaneth back into the bosom of his country.. plus some more info for my students.

[moonraven]

Hmmmm. You've stumped me. I don't see how I could know what has changed in the US since I was last there (a year ago), since I am not there now, but here (Mexico) and there is no umbilical cord from there to here.

[zaneth]

Yes, Virginia, there are moderators.

Well, back in the States and over my jet lag. And you know what? I kind of like it here. I'm a little surprised myself. I'd built up such a negative conception of the place.

Went with a friend looking at houses and land in the country the other day. Went to see some folks she'd met previously who had said they might be selling soon. Hung out on the front porch with the old man and had a nice chat. Enjoyed the view, the silence, the clean air. Some of my friends are moving to the country. A mail order book business I used to work for has moved down there and several of the employees with it. People opting for a simpler, quieter life.

Today I went to the Museum of Glass in Tacoma. It's in what used to be a run down industrial area. Now the area is full of nice buildings, museums, and a university branch. A trolley line goes down the center of the main street, just like I remember in Germany. The central exhibit is a glassblowing workshop with seats for an audience, complete with commentator. Sat and watched this team of artists make an amazing glass vase. The building itself was fascinating, inside and out and from all different angles. The museum giftshop was filled with beautiful craft items and books about people who were doing interesting things.

This evening went out to my old university. They've built a complex of new buildings, all using the latest in green technology, passive solar, etc. Beautiful native plant landscaping all intertwined with the buildings. Saw an author talking to a group of Master's students about consciously developing peace in their lives, and some of the historical people that had done that. These were Masters in Public Administration students.

Met some people and made some connections regarding permaculture, organic farming. My favorite used bookstore is thriving and growing. Found a great used bike for 75 bucks to use while I'm here. And vegan and vegetarian food seems to be on the rise.
Things are not so bad.

[droidman]

I just gave an hour of my life to this lengthy thread and I'm both impressed by the participants' amazing command of English and confused as to whether the topic was American culture or why the USA is bad or good, in a political sense. As for American culture, in my opinion, there's currently a massive pile of crap being produced south of the border that the world is eager to consume. I just have to turn on my Canadian t.v. to see it. Reality tv is the clearest indication that our planet's predominant culture is on a steep decline. But I haven't forgotten that America gave us Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, etc, etc....

As the "leader of the free world", America has very little time left to reverse it's current direction. Bush junior and his band of neo-conservatives want to implement a US dominated world, and I'm confident the rest of the world will gradually resist, even if it initially appears futile when faced with the only "super-power". But I'm hoping that this nightmare of America as the "bully of the world" changes in November. Let me once again watch Hollywood movies with American heroes, and not feel like puking. After Iraq, it's going to be hard to do, even if Junior loses.

[Will.]

Virginia has moderators?
How is the organic movement going over there Zaneth? It was in its youth when I was last over but there were many serious converts to the mother earth club.
I dropped off the bandwagon, due to the price and availability of the goods over here but do still cultivate a smallholding here, that is my interesting thing.
So green technology is in its ascendancy? Any Links we can pursue?

[zaneth]

Well, you have to realize I'm in a sort of liberal bubble here.

I wouldn't exactly say green technology is in its ascendancy. I'd say chip-board structural members, siding made from concrete and paper fibers, and stapled together houses are in their ascendancy. Cheap, mass-produced from waste product kinds of products.

The thing that bothers me about so much green technology and alternative technology discussion is all the crap about "without lowering our standard of living." Seems to me like lowering a standard of living a little is exactly what is needed. Or redefining it. But that's another discussion.

Biggest change in the organic scene seems to be that even mainstream grocery stores are stocking a lot of the most popular organic products. I wonder if this has hurt the Natural Food Co-ops. The cheese scene is still far inferior to the Uk with their huge selection of rennetless cheeses.

In general, land use patterns don't seem to be changing (unless you count all the traffic circles cropping up). And preserved and packaged is still the order of the day in food overall.

Z

[Bindair Dundat]

[Will.]

Hi Zaneth,
It looks like I missed this thread.
Just out of interest in the horticultural aspectsa of US and Eastern Europe comparison. The organic deliberateness of production versus the economic non-use of chemicals. Any difference in the finished article? which area produce the best quality food in terms of fruit and veg?
I live in a big market town and am used to buying from the market. the same in Central Europe but the food was definitely better quality.