Job Discussion Forums

richardw3 · Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 7

Gay people are here because we want to experience life; not just get married,have babies (in an over-populated world) and go to work and go home and go to work and go home.......Why are breeders here?

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

An interesting question - and I confess I didn't read every page of the replies, but, a couple of observations :-

I've met quite a few homosexuals in TEFL in the last "x" years in various parts of the world.
But I've also met Blacks, Brits, Jews, N.Americans, Ozzies and NZers etc etc.

An unscientific observation might be that a significant % of TEFL teachers are in TEFL because they have problems in their own 'first worlds'

I leave it for others to decide whether homosexuality or homophobia can be counted as a problem.

I've just put on a suit of armour - so ............. attack, if you need to.

marblez · Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 248 Location: Canada

Heh, never been called a "breeder" before! Laughing

Will. · Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 783 Location: London Uk

Well folks it just goes to show what a fine lot of people we all are to just accept that we all get along jest fine and dandy and even have homosexuals as workplace friends and colleagues and even let them take the rise out of 'us' the non-homosexuals that are writing on here just so that you all know that we aren't like that but don't mind if other people are just as long as you know we don't, y'know but we are OK about that if they want to ...with each other... and it don't bother us none because we're TEFL teachers and we really are open-minded and that.
So why are we even discussing this???
I guess elsewheres this question don't get noticed 'cuz people are so uptight they can't talk about it, or don't think it worthy of mention.
Hey have you noticed how many couples there are in TEFL
Well whoopee! and paint me purple this thread is a real dilly.
We have a long way still to go people.

Ben Round de Bloc · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1946

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

mr.bojangles · Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 58

'Que sera sera' rings to mind. The topic is such an issue to some. My advice; life is too short. Love life!!!

dyak · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 630

'Oh society, please label me, define me and label me some more!' 'Surely my fellow human beings can police me into a box wherein I can remain, defined and labelled!'

Aaaahhggg! This is the bollox we need to stop!

junk'n · Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 12

This is my first time post and I've enjoyed reading most of this thread. For myself I would say, EFL in Japan provides an environment not unlike university. Someone mentioned their observation earlier that most people here just don't care. I think this is true. Also, it's a non competitive environment so there's no need to conform to other's expectations as much. In contrast someone mentioned the high numbers of closeted gays in the policeforce (amongst others) as an example. For the most part however I don't know that gays are overrepresented in EFL.

The Overcoat · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 68

shit stabbers shouldn't be allowed anywhere near kids.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Who the hell cares?

Happy New Year

alfred_utton · Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 26 Location: Costa Rica

In the spirit of Audre Lourde, I offer this statement of my identity: I am a gay white male femenist (called remember how to spell this word. why isn't there a spell check?).

When I joined Dave's last week, I was hesitant to make any references to my sexuality because prospective employers might read it and choose not to hire me because I'm gay. I came out to my family when I was eleven. I been out at almost every job I've had and out at every school I've atteneded since then. I am not used to being concerned about whether or not I should be out or closteted. However, I've never applied to teach at a job outside of the U.S. before. In the U.S., I would never work at a place that would not accept my sexuality, but I am not sure if I can afford to hold onto this value as I seek work abroad. Here in San Jose, Costa Rica, I don't expect it to be an issue, but I eventually hope to work in Asia and the Middle East.

I chose to come out here in Dave's now because it has become a community I value. I simply cannot exist in a closet. Perhaps I am answering my own question here. Do I have a question? I'm sorry I'm still a little hung over from bringing in the new year. So maybe if I can't even fathom not being out in an on-line formum, I could not be closteted at a school where I'm teaching? But I'm not concerned about being out at work, I imagine that where ever I am, I will eventually be out to one if not most of the people I work with. I am concerned that my being out might prevent me from getting a job.

In the "Interests" section of my resume, I originally listed "studies in community formation including ... sexuality" and a reference to *beep* theory. Guy was kind enough to agree to look over my resume and I took these comments out when I sent it to him. Not because I don't want him to know that I'm gay, but out of my concern about my being out keeping me from getting a job.

Some people might say that I shouldn't work anywhere that doesn't accept my sexuality. But should I expect a university in Saudi Arabia to hire me as an out gay male? Should I even go work there as an out gay man? Not that I'll be leaving CR anytime soon.

So, as soon as I submit this posting, I will be out to another community. I will also be out globally, to people all over the world. I will also be out for as long as this site exists, to whoever choses to look up my postings. Might point being that coming out here is not an act that I take without thought.

I made references to "suanas" in my second posting. That reference, and the subsequent dialog, effectively outed me as a man that has sex with men in public. But not as a gay man. Guy, who I believe has a wife and is straight, did not get the reference I made to saunas and did not realize I was hinting about my sexuality. I was able to out myself, as a person who engages in specific sex acts, to a specific portion of this community. I am drawing a distinction here between the acting out of particular sexual desires and sexual identity. I am also trying to draw this posting to a close and weave it back until the original thread. I believe sexual identity to be chosen state. Very like the Christian state of being saved. Like being saved, being out is not a single act, but an act that must be committed again and again.

There may be a higher number of gay men represented in TESOL than other professions, I don't know yet. I haven't even gotten my first posting yet. I will say that there are a higher number of LGBT people employed in coffee shops than other places. An observation that has been made by straight and gay people in straight and gay coffee shops in which I have worked. In conclusion, I do not believe that asking the question that led to the above observaion, or the statement of this observation, to be homophobic. Nor is the question that opened this thread. A thread I, for one, am very glad has come about.[/quote]

alfred_utton · Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 26 Location: Costa Rica

a brief foot note to my above writing:

I wrote '*beep* theory' but it was changed to "beep theory" when I posted. I don't know why and I'm too over staring at the compter to try to figure out how to fix it.

alfred_utton · Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 26 Location: Costa Rica

what the *beep*? the word that rhymes with spear and starts with the letter q keeps coming up as bleep. I understand that by joining this community I agree to its norms and a certain amount of cencorship but jesus christ already. the word in question does indeed have origin in derogatory usage. however, it has been reclaimed by members of a community who chose to identify by it. I suggest that the word be taken off of the cenored word list so that members of that community who choose to use it to identify themselves may do so. furthermore, quear* theory is an acedemically recognized discourse which some of us might like to mention now and again.

*spelling altered in the hopes of having some sembalce of the word appear in context. I am crossing my fingers.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

The *beep* replaces whatever banned word you used. It's automatic.

Alfred, I caught your referrences, including the sauna one in another thread (?). I didn't think it important to write any sort of reaction to it since it wasn't part of the question. But, I'll react now since it seems to be important.

Your sexuality has precisely zip to do with teaching or getting a teaching assignment as you and I have been discussing through correspondence. I'll admit that I didn't even see you mentioning *beep* theory on your resume, as I was more concerned with form and the education and experience section. Please email the resume again and I will pay more attention.

Could you explain exactly what an 'out' gay male is and why that affects your teaching? I ask because I don't see how it has any bearing on a teaching job. For example, what is an 'out' heterosexual man? Is that simply the expected norm, meaning, that is just the way he looks? Or does it mean that he is sexually active with his female students? Or that it is okay that he brings his wife or gf into the classroom? Or that he talks about hetero sex in the class? Take all those examples and substitute the details for what you consider an 'out' gay male. In both cases, everything is irrelevant to class work. I assume a normal gay male to dress as a hetero male would in the classroom. Professionally, for a class setting. Transgenderism, cross-dressing, guys wearing skirts, I dunno, is this what you mean? Probably not.

Being sexually active with your students? Big no-no depending on age of course, but again, it wouldn't matter.

Bringing your partner, gf/bf, whoever into the class? Nope, not going to happen either for anyone.

Talking about sex in the class? Depends on the age group, but open discussion about sexuality will depend more on the community you teach in than the teacher.

Bringing this to a close, why should you expect an employer to accept or reject your sexuality? It's not even an issue to be discussed as it is irrelevant to the job. On the other hand, if you walk into an interview and the first thing you decalre is your sexuality, then why should they think anything other than you are some nut? This is a teaching job after all.

I think the first thing you should ask yourself is what your priorities are. A teaching job or your lifestyle. Here in this forum, there aren't repercussions to discussing such topics (except for the SHOCKED right wing nuts - just wait until they respond) but in the workplace, the job is first.