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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: Over the quota |
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| abayababy wrote: |
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| but as soon as a Working Visa is available we are sending our Instructors back to their home country to process the visa at our own expense. |
vabeckele, what they are saying is that they cannot, at this time, sponsor you for an employment visa which must be processed in your home country and which leads to an iqama once you get to KSA. Companies can only hire so many expats this way and the number depends on the amount of Saudi nationals that they employ. My understanding is that they get around this by bringing teachers over on 90-day business visas. Apparently, this is illegal, but it is done regularly. There are many other threads which discuss the pitfalls of having such a visa, so I won't go into that now. Good luck with your decision! |
Dear Abayababy,
I think I am beginning to see the picture a little more clearly now: A country has a stipulated number of work visas for each company or/and country each year, once that quota has been met the only avenue left is the business/visit visa?
Now I recognise this, the practice of this isn't as heinous as I once believed. However, it still, as you hinted at, makes for a life a little 'challenging' on a daily basis, and if, low and behold, one is in front of the law...
I am still negotiating with the company and I have roughly a 10 point list that I need to be made comfortable with before I make a decision.
Thank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated.
Vabeckele |
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abayababy
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| While it may not be a heinous crime to work on a business visa, it is a crime nonetheless and puts you in a vulnerable position with little, if any, legal recourse should your employer treat you badly. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject: Forehand knoweledge of commiting a crime |
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| abayababy wrote: |
| While it may not be a heinous crime to work on a business visa, it is a crime nonetheless and puts you in a vulnerable position with little, if any, legal recourse should your employer treat you badly. |
Indeed!
I sent the firm this list of queries, to which I very much doubt they will answer as none of them were on the contract:
Dear .....,
I thank you for your patience and explanation of the visa process. I do, however have a quite, seemingly, exhaustive, list of queries that I would like to bring up if I may:
Accommodation � What kind of accommodation will be offered? Will it be on a compound with other ex-pats, or in a �suite hotel� type of residency? What would the size and extent of �furnished� living arrangements would I be under? I would like, if possible a phone line and internet installed � would I receive assistance with this? As again, without the correct visa I cannot apply for any services while residing within KSA.
Transportation � Would this be in the form of an official NIT service or by local taxi? How far and long would the journey be from my place of residence to my place of work?
Length of contract � I would rather sign a contract of a year at first; two years is a long time to commit to an employer before I know anything about them and their practices. This would also hold true for NIT.
Salary � An offer of 9800 SAR is a good opening, however, I had mentioned in the interview that I would be more comfortable with a salary between 11250 SAR and 13200 SAR � I found no objection to this while being interviewed.
Visa runs � I do believe, in the interim of my being sent to my home country I will be required to leave the country every 30 days to renew my visa status, probably to Bahrain? Will NIT cover these expenses and what modes of transportation will I be expected to use and how long would this journey take? Moreover, what kind of accommodation will be supplied while I am out of the country?
Workload � A regular workload of 20-25 hours, has been, in my, albeit, limited experience, the norm. In light of the extenuating circumstances of having to renew my visa every month, I would prefer this lighter load.
Air ticket � Will this be paid for before my booking the flight, or after?
Arrival � Will a representative of NIT be at the airport to pick me up and make sure I arrive at my destination, safely. Depending on the time of arrival, will I be able to purchase food and water nearby my living quarters? Would I be given a day or two to �settle in�?
I apologise in advance for the detailed questions and hesitations I have at this moment. As I wrote in my last correspondence, I am excited and honoured to be offered a chance to be able to join your organisation.
Yours sincerely, |
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jaffa
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| They can't expect you to do a visa run from Jeddah to Bahrain every month. Sanaa? Amman? Damascus is a little tricky right now... |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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And a warning...
While the questions are logical and certainly one wants to know the answers, employers like this in the Gulf have a common tendency to tell you what you want to hear... with no necessity of their answers having anything to do with the reality on the ground. If you haven't heard from current employees that this is the situation for them, you won't get unique treatment. It is pretty much - if it isn't included in writing in your contract, you will probably not get the things that they "promise" in emails or phone conversations.
Buyer beware... especially with employers that already have a marginal reputation.
VS |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: Ethics, morals, and practicalities |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
And a warning...
While the questions are logical and certainly one wants to know the answers, employers like this in the Gulf have a common tendency to tell you what you want to hear... with no necessity of their answers having anything to do with the reality on the ground. If you haven't heard from current employees that this is the situation for them, you won't get unique treatment. It is pretty much - if it isn't included in writing in your contract, you will probably not get the things that they "promise" in emails or phone conversations.
Buyer beware... especially with employers that already have a marginal reputation.
VS |
I tend to rush in head first and then think about the consequences of my actions afterwards, and at my age, I think it is going to be difficult to change. To put this another way, I am a practical person; 'there are many ways to get past the wall in front of you', comes to mind. I also have a stupid tendency to trust people; even those that are behaving in a less than exemplary way in regards to employment procedures - Is an employer really going to care if, 'you get caught with you pants 'round your ankles'?
I do not want to break the laws of any country and it goes against my better judgement to do so - That is when I find it (my better judgement, that is).
I have been doing the 'visa run' thing for a couple of years in Vietnam and it is just a plain pain in the azz here - But when I consider the implications of S.A., its value system et cetera, then of course one must also become ethically and morally responsible, to act any other way in S.A. would be hypocritical, don't you think? That, or one would be giving further ammunition to the already derogatory image of our MTV society. And then we have the legal issue; I would probably get a slap on the wrist in Vietnam. In S.A. I would get it cut off...the left one, presumably. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| vabeckele wrote: |
| "...but as soon as a Working Visa is available we are sending our Instructors back to their home country to process the visa at our own expense"... |
Yeah, and how long is that wait going to be... Moreover, if you're issued a business visit /work visit visa, that "employment contract" won't be worth the paper it's printed on because this visa type does not grant you the right to work or reside in the Kingdom. That means you'd have no legal recourse if NIT decides they don't want to fulfill any of their obligations to you.
| and wrote: |
I tend to rush in head first and then think about the consequences of my actions afterwards, and at my age, I think it is going to be difficult to change. To put this another way, I am a practical person; 'there are many ways to get past the wall in front of you', comes to mind. I also have a stupid tendency to trust people; even those that are behaving in a less than exemplary way in regards to employment procedures - Is an employer really going to care if, 'you get caught with you pants 'round your ankles'?
I do not want to break the laws of any country and it goes against my better judgement to do so - That is when I find it (my better judgement, that is). |
Frankly, it isn't worth going through this much hassle with them just to get satisfactory explanations (AKA false promises) regarding the terms and conditions of your pay, work, and living situation. Take your energy, time, and qualifications elsewhere. Plus, this is the time of year where employers start their major recruiting efforts for the upcoming academic year. You can check TESOL.org's career site, or go on individual university's web sites, look for their jobs page, and apply directly. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:21 am Post subject: Thanks |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| vabeckele wrote: |
| "...but as soon as a Working Visa is available we are sending our Instructors back to their home country to process the visa at our own expense"... |
Yeah, and how long is that wait going to be... Moreover, if you're issued a business visit /work visit visa, that "employment contract" won't be worth the paper it's printed on because this visa type does not grant you the right to work or reside in the Kingdom. That means you'd have no legal recourse if NIT decides they don't want to fulfill any of their obligations to you.
| and wrote: |
I tend to rush in head first and then think about the consequences of my actions afterwards, and at my age, I think it is going to be difficult to change. To put this another way, I am a practical person; 'there are many ways to get past the wall in front of you', comes to mind. I also have a stupid tendency to trust people; even those that are behaving in a less than exemplary way in regards to employment procedures - Is an employer really going to care if, 'you get caught with you pants 'round your ankles'?
I do not want to break the laws of any country and it goes against my better judgement to do so - That is when I find it (my better judgement, that is). |
Frankly, it isn't worth going through this much hassle with them just to get satisfactory explanations (AKA false promises) regarding the terms and conditions of your pay, work, and living situation. Take your energy, time, and qualifications elsewhere. Plus, this is the time of year where employers start their major recruiting efforts for the upcoming academic year. You can check TESOL.org's career site, or go on individual university's web sites, look for their jobs page, and apply directly. |
I like your avatar, Nomad soul, and I thank you for your advice. I have just returned from the aforementioned website where I have just applied to a few jobs in S.A.
I owe you one. |
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jaffa
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Ethics, morals, and practicalities |
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| vabeckele wrote: |
| In S.A. I would get it cut off...the left one, presumably. |
Bollock? |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Ethics, morals, and practicalities |
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| jaffa wrote: |
| vabeckele wrote: |
| In S.A. I would get it cut off...the left one, presumably. |
Bollock? |
Well...they are considered a delicacy in some countries, perhaps not mine, but you get the picture. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks |
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| vabeckele wrote: |
I like your avatar, Nomad soul, and I thank you for your advice. I have just returned from the aforementioned website where I have just applied to a few jobs in S.A.
I owe you one. |
Nah, you just owe it to yourself to ensure you get into a decent teaching situation. Don't sell yourself short---always research the employer. By the way, there's also higheredjobs.com. Good luck. |
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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Any new info on this gig? They are hiring. |
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Amerrycan Muslim
Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 51
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Willard wrote: |
| Any new info on this gig? They are hiring. |
I did a short stint with them a year ago. The other teachers who were there didn't really have a bad word to say about the place... The two guys that run the English section, an American named Daniel and an Indian named Ahmed were good guys... The HR dept are a complete bunch of... Which is why I didn't stay with them... I refused to let them keep my passport and things escalated quickly...
But teaching wise it seemed stable and steady... |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Addis or Asmara would be the most convenient for a visa-run from Jeddah but I would not encourage anyone to get involved in a semi-legal operation where they are working on a business visa. |
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elamericano
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Business visa teachers at NIT who were Westerners used to get 13k for every month worked (which was every month except Ramadan plus a few shortened holidays). I would take this only after striking out with the public universities, where you will have fewer contact hours and much longer summer and holiday breaks, and/or you really need any Middle East experience you can get for your CV. |
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