Job Discussion Forums

[vikeologist]

Ultimately you have to look out for yourself.

However, I'm uncomfortable with the view that it's ok to screw other people over, because they would do it to you.

The Op should obviously do what is right for them. I don't know their situation. I just wanted to establish that such a misdemeanour is not a minor one, and if the OP hasn't yet accepted a job offer, they should consider carefully before doing so. Why not be a decent person?

[kungfuman]

Vike - play Devil's Advocate here. You never came to China before and accept the first offer that looks good. Teaching English in a school, somewhere in China for 6000y a month for 18 classes.

About a week later you get a response from a school you applied to. 12,000y a month for 18 classes teaching in a school in a city that was on your A list.
12 month contract and they pay your airfare both ways and give you a better apartment.

You got my gist.

So now there are several factors involved - money and location being one of them.

I think many people will change their mind and opt for the new offer.

[choudoufu]

not knowing your worth, not doing your research, are not valid excuses
for breaking your contract. (ignoring that that's the way it seems to be
done in china, and that it's not actually a contract yet....)

kungfuman - let's play mogui's advocate. your school has never hired
a foreign teacher with a masters before and you accept the first candidate
that looks good, offering them 10,000 rmb per month (plus bennies)
for 14 hours. that's effectively a 4,000 rmb premium for the masters.

a few weeks later you get an offer from an experienced teacher with
a masters in education to teach 16 hours for 8,000 per month.

now there are two factors involved. money and qualifications.

i think many schools will take the qualified and experienced teacher at a
lower salary, despite already signing a contract with the random native
speaker.

too bad if the original contractee already applied for and paid for the visa
and non-refundable air tickets.

[dfra]

I appreciate everyone's input and acceptance on my part is pending.

The issues presented seem to all have merit. My experience is teaching High School and Adults. The school will have me teaching 6-14 yr olds, max 20 teaching lessons, max as required 15 Office hours weekly, weekends off. Office hours are only if needed and if no lessons presence at school is not mandatory. OT is on 61RMB an hour (tried to negotiate it), 2-3 weeks winter vacation.

I have talked to the current teachers who are coming back to the US to start their own family, and subjectively, felt they enjoyed the experience but teaching the younger ranges did pose some challenges. Administration treated the ESL teachers well but support was 50/50. Pay was on time (10,000RMB), nice apartment.

Searches really have not turned up too much on the school. Anyone have any info on them, "The Affiliated High School of Peking University Wuhan Weiming Experiment School"?

Thanks again everyone.

[muffintop]

[doogsville]

Surely the bottom line is business is business. I agree that the school would have no qualms whatsoever about ditching one candidate for a better candidate, so why shouldn't the candidate play by the same rules.

vikeologist, I applaud your scruples and your moral stance. If there were more people with your attitude the world would be a nicer place to live in. That being said, I'm not sure I would not have done what the OP is thinking of doing in the same circumstance. Sure, the school may lose money, but I'm betting it will be a fraction of the money they will make from employing an FT. Any FT, in the long run. Business people should be aware of it as a possibility and price their service accordingly. If they don't then their business will fail. It's called the free market economy.

We are all contributing to it either by direct support of it or apathy about changing it.

OP, do what is best for you. Don't sh*t on the little people, but don't get caught up in sympathy for people who would have no sympathy for you were the footwear on the other foot.

Edited to add... having read your last post again, 20 'teaching lessons' !!! I've never taught a lesson that was less than two hours long, so that would be 40 hours of contact time. Dear god, that would kill you. Also, 61 RMB for OT!!! I Wouldn't work for 61 RMB as the standard rate, let alone as OT. My last language mill job is notorious as the lowest paying gig in town, but even they paid at least 75 an hour standard rate and 120 an hour for OT. There are better gigs out there.

[dfra]

Wow, more good input. Okay I was a little off on the OT. Below are some of the answers provided to me when I "negotiated" the terms.

***************
Dear Mr. Person,

I have forwarded your contract to school HR and had a long discussion with her about it today.

I hope I was helpful. Before you see the attached update contract, I need to explain something to you as follows,

1. Salary
Your salary in probation period and after probatation is RMB10000 monthly (taxable). Employee has the obiligation to pay personal income tax in China, it is fair to China government. Your tax is RMB485 monthly.
All the school staff's salary paid on 10th of next month because the payroll takes time to be made and be signed by leader and leader. For example. You will get whole Sep. salary on Oct. 10th.

2. Overtime pay
Hourly pay = 10000 / 21.75 days /7 hours = 65.68RMB
How many times depends on which day for overtime.
Seldom overtime in the school.

3. Working hours, teaching hours
Timetable,
Monday to Friday, 8am - 12pm and 14pm - 17pm
In total 35 hours working including maximum 20 teaching hours per week. Actually and normally if you don't have classes in the afternoon, then you are not requested office hours in the afternoon.
Two days off at the weekends.

4. Gas, water, electricity, internet and telephone bill allowance
The school pays maximum RMB300 monthly for you to pay your bills. It is allowance. How much you will spend, the school can not control. You are the employee in the school then has the allowance.

5. Airfare allowance
RMB8000 airfare allowance per academic year upon you finishing the contract with the school.

I hope you could understand and treat the school and Chinese government fair too. I do understand you are good at contract. And you are respectable in the communicating.

Anyway, I hope you can make a fair and final decision by Wednesday. Thank you in advance.

Attached update and final contract and appendix.
The school HR and the leader warmly welcome your coming and working there.
*******************

[vikeologist]

Hi OP

If I were you, I'd amend your last post to take your real name out.

So you haven't accepted the job yet?

There's better forums than Dave's for evaluating contracts, but there's a couple of worrying things.

I don't understand how they're working out the overtime rate, but it should be a no-no. ESL teachers make 150-200 an hour for privates, but since it's at the school, somewhere around the 120 mark is a fair rate for overtime.

I don't think 10k is a decent price for this much work in Beijing at all. Lots of mandatory (morning) office hours.

Some people are not keen on probation periods.

So you're paying tax, but maybe in Beijing you'll also have to pay social security of 1k a month. Check with the previous teachers.

Is accommodation included.

Look, life is not all about money, and as someone else has said, this could be a good first job in China. Personally I don't think it is, because of the money.

It's not awful, but if you haven't accepted yet, I'd look for something better. I suppose it depends whether you are really set on Beijing, and how marketable you are. Depending on who and what you are, this may be the best offer you can get. If you applied to lots of schools, and this was the best offer, then ok.

[dfra]

@vikeologist

Thanks, removed the name.

Yes the job is in Wuhan.

I also do not know how they came up using the number for OT either and could not get an explanation. I did try using 140 hrs and 10k RMB to figure minimum OT per hr.

Yes accommodations are free. One month probation.

I did talk with the current teacher, she said the staff and teachers treat them well and I would be the ONLY ESL teacher. So I got a feeling of maybe 70 good, 30 bad out of a 100.

Anyways, that is why I started this post. I do have a few other possibilities.
I am due to accept the offer tonight. If I do change my mind I will respectfully let them know as indicated on these posts.