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5h09un
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
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 Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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you should accept the fact that the path to legal employment in china wasn't quite what you expected and that you need to adjust your plans accordingly in order to avoid making a mistake you might deeply regret. if you want to come here, great. china is fantastic.
but do it the right way because when your fly-by-night, work-illegally-at-first plan fails, it is going to be very expensive for you to fix things and reestablish yourself here. i personally know people who have tried both of the paths you're considering (HK, third country) within the last year and failed. they still had to go home for a couple of months and then come back. there's also the possibility that you could get caught and detained at some point during your stay here.
finally, and don't listen to hearsay about things like this. i did the HK visa run once. that was more than three years ago. but things are constantly changing here and visa policy is no exception. the chinese government has started to phase in a background check requirement like the one you already probably had to undergo in order to go to south korea. my supervisor's fiancee is stuck at home in australia waiting for this to be done, and according to her it's going to take about six weeks. it's news to me and probably to everybody else who checks this board from time to time, and that's because it only applies to people who are applying for new visas. this is likely in response to a few of the bad eggs who brought a little too much attention to themselves in the past year.
also, don't work in japan without the right documents either. the police there are very aggressive about enforcing immigration laws and you will be harshly punished regardless of your nationality if you're caught violating them. you'd think china would be the place in the far east in which one would be stopped at random and without cause other than "does not appear to be from this country" and told to present one's documents, but it's not. that's japan. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 5h09un wrote: |
| .......t things are constantly changing here and visa policy is no exception. the chinese government has started to phase in a background check requirement like the one you already probably had to undergo in order to go to south korea. my supervisor's fiancee is stuck at home in australia waiting for this to be done, and according to her it's going to take about six weeks. it's news to me and probably to everybody else who checks this board from time to time, and that's because it only applies to people who are applying for new visas. this is likely in response to a few of the bad eggs who brought a little too much attention to themselves in the past year...... |
every province will be different........here in hainan, in order to RENEW your
FEC (re-signing with same school), foreign experts bureau is demanding a
statement from the applicant that he/she has no criminal history, either
in china or in home country. this year they are accepting a signed statement
from the applicant. next year? who knows....notarized police/fbi check perhaps? |
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5h09un
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
| 5h09un wrote: |
| .......t things are constantly changing here and visa policy is no exception. the chinese government has started to phase in a background check requirement like the one you already probably had to undergo in order to go to south korea. my supervisor's fiancee is stuck at home in australia waiting for this to be done, and according to her it's going to take about six weeks. it's news to me and probably to everybody else who checks this board from time to time, and that's because it only applies to people who are applying for new visas. this is likely in response to a few of the bad eggs who brought a little too much attention to themselves in the past year...... |
every province will be different........here in hainan, in order to RENEW your
FEC (re-signing with same school), foreign experts bureau is demanding a
statement from the applicant that he/she has no criminal history, either
in china or in home country. this year they are accepting a signed statement
from the applicant. next year? who knows....notarized police/fbi check perhaps? |
i guess i could've made my statement a little more clear. the guy is actually coming back to china. he was here for two or three years. but then he went home and his residency permit expired, so he had to go through the whole process all over again and that's when i got this bit of news the other day.
the signed statement is pretty silly. but i don't think they should force everybody who's already here to go home on their own dime to pick up a piece of paper either. i really can't afford that right now.
after a while, the system will clean itself out with this new stipulation because the vast majority of foreigners in china don't stay for more than a couple of years. |
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zenmeban
Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| 5h09un wrote: |
| zenmeban wrote: |
| I have a BA in Chinese and a BA in Int'l Relations. |
which will certainly be useful if you get popped for working illegally. 
you can't flip tourist visas on the mainland. or in HK. or in a third country. those days are over. if anybody told you otherwise, they lied.
you have to get your Z visa at home now. don't work here illegally. it's too risky. |
You're the only person I've heard who has said this. I know everything on this board is anecdotal, but there seem to be more anecdotes saying the opposite.
| choudoufu wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
| .....Although places off the beaten track are often able to recruit teachers without a proper TEFL cert, Shanghai is the actual beaten track..... |
very very very, and i do mean very, few places in china require any sort
of tefl certification. some private schools, the 'real' international schools,
and your odd prestidigitios university will. your average ordinary everyday
university or mill won't require it. sometimes the ads will state "tefl
cert. desired," but if you meet all the other requirements, they'll drop it. |
This also seems to be the case... while TEFL might not be necessary, I'm guessing it would certainly give a big leg up. I'll just have to hope I'm lucky and don't compete against a TEFL cert holder.
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
Well he did say "I'm coming to China this July on a tourist visa, gonna teach under the table until I get a Z-visa." That sounds like working illegally till something legal comes along. As long as people are willing to do this then there are always going to be recruiters and schools willing to enable it. There's nothing wrong with coming to China on a tourist visa and looking for work, finding it, and then doing a visa run. Lots of people do that. |
I guess this is my fault for not clarifying. Not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm not foolish enough to put myself completely at the mercy of someone unscrupulous enough to hire illegal immigrants. I'll be teaching private lessons to acquaintances of a family friend. That's also risky , sure, but probably much less so. |
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zenmeban
Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Anyway, though, back on topic... any answers for these?
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2) Where can I get an idea of the terms/benefits in an "average" ESL contract in Shanghai? The sticky is 8 years old.
3) Where can I find a reputable school to work at, or a list of them? (PM me if you're at one!) |
I guess I could ask specifics:
What's a fair salary in Shanghai for someone at my level of experience?
Has round trip airfare become standard now?
How many teaching hours a week is normal? (In Korea I did 18-20.)
Do all jobs require weekends and evening hours? |
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5h09un
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| zenmeban wrote: |
| 5h09un wrote: |
| zenmeban wrote: |
| I have a BA in Chinese and a BA in Int'l Relations. |
which will certainly be useful if you get popped for working illegally.
you can't flip tourist visas on the mainland. or in HK. or in a third country. those days are over. if anybody told you otherwise, they lied.
you have to get your Z visa at home now. don't work here illegally. it's too risky. |
You're the only person I've heard who has said this. I know everything on this board is anecdotal, but there seem to be more anecdotes saying the opposite. |
tell ya what. roll the dice and report back to us later. |
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JustinC
Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 138
Location: The Land That Time Forgot
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| zenmeban wrote: |
Anyway, though, back on topic... any answers for these?
| Quote: |
2) Where can I get an idea of the terms/benefits in an "average" ESL contract in Shanghai? The sticky is 8 years old.
3) Where can I find a reputable school to work at, or a list of them? (PM me if you're at one!) |
I guess I could ask specifics:
What's a fair salary in Shanghai for someone at my level of experience?
Has round trip airfare become standard now?
How many teaching hours a week is normal? (In Korea I did 18-20.)
Do all jobs require weekends and evening hours? |
2) By applying for positions and looking at job ads
3) Good luck getting a reliable recommendation from strangers online!
a) That depends on the hours, whether accommodation is included, preparation you'd have to do (it looks like you'd prefer to do none), travel between schools, numbers in the classroom, if the company is professionally run, expectations of 'other' duties etc
b) No, some schools want to hire in-country
c) ... Okay, I'm bored answering your juvenile questions. Start applying for jobs and compare what you catch in the net. Really, any answers here will be guesswork and you don't want to be relying on that when you should be drilling down into a contract. Put the effort in yourself, before the job starts, and there's less likelihood of there being unwanted surprises when you're fully committed. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Flipping visas in Hong Kong is still possible; sometimes, which is really all I can say.
One of our teachers did it earlier this semester. Just make sure that you take your health check with you. For some reason you need the check before the visa.
I don't know if all provinces will issue invitation letters for Z visas in HK. I suppose nothing is certain. Really we're just talking likelihood. The Op can probably obtain his Z visa in HK.
I didn't mean to suggest that looking for a job on a tourist was illegal. |
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5h09un
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| I didn't mean to suggest that looking for a job on a tourist was illegal. |
there's probably nothing wrong with entering a school to seek employment. you just can't legally work for them until the proper documents have been arranged.[/i] |
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