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best advice given or gotten about teaching EFL...
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(The attitude in basic training is ultimately "Shut up and listen, maggots!" - some may disagree, but no one will dispute that a four-week course doesn't have enough time for too much to-and-fro - and then once minimally-qualified it is usually a case of "You've got the cert and should be able to manage, right? Good! Now get into that classroom and earn the school its heap of cash, why don't you!").


And the 'advice' anyone is meant to glean from this would be? Those of us who have experience training teachers have been amazingly patient with this line of attack from the sole and lonely hamster going around and around on the same wheel for literally years now. This constant slamming of basic training has never gained any wider support from others. For good reason; basic training generally has quite a lot of value, from the bottom-line job market aspect up to having at least the first clue what to do when one has a class of his/her own.

My advice: ignore hamsters on the issue of training in ELT.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Substance, eh? Voluble, perhaps. Could easily be reduced to something more pithy. How about, "I think my experiences with Cambridge courses were terrible, so we should all over-generalise from that and restrict our training to autodidacticism"?

Did you read beyond my first paragraph, Sash? Hardly that autodidactic to read around, discuss things with colleagues, in short look and go beyond the cert. Besides, how can one be a total autodidact if one has completed at least some basic formal training? I went, I sat, I didn't like it much, so I'm Mr Horse, fine, take away that mic and stop the interview! And that first paragraph was meant to be light-hearted, and I think what it contains are truisms, no more no less.

Quote:
And the 'advice' anyone is meant to glean from this would be? Those of us who have experience training teachers have been amazingly patient with this line of attack from the sole and lonely hamster going around and around on the same wheel for literally years now. This constant slamming of basic training has never gained any wider support from others. For good reason; basic training generally has quite a lot of value, from the bottom-line job market aspect up to having at least the first clue what to do when one has a class of his/her own.

My advice: ignore hamsters on the issue of training in ELT.

This thread is about advice, and that is wider than basic training, which contains more admonition than genuine advice IMHO (genuine advice is more personally tailored). As for patience, are you aware that people exercise a fair bit with you too sometimes (for example, when you wanted to do anything but discuss the grammar involved on that 'infinitives without to' thread recently)?


Last edited by fluffyhamster on Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I struggled through all of your paragraphs, as I always do : O)
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For somebody who maintains that my writing is impossible to read, you sure do post a lot of replies to it. I on the other hand understand your writing and its motivations perfectly, and will thus stop continuing, at least on this thread, to give you the oxygen of attention that you so clearly crave. I think that's fair.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fluffy, I think you are now confusing posters' replies. Spiral wasn't on the Infinitives thread, as far as I know.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not impossible to read - just harder than necessary. 'Imposing a strain on the reader' is how your Celta trainer would critique writing like that. But, let's just reject comments like that, and the conventions that gave rise to them...
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster:
Quote:
As for patience, are you aware that people exercise a fair bit with you too sometimes (for example, when you wanted to do anything but discuss the grammar involved on that 'infinitives without to' thread recently)?


Yes, I was doing anything but posting on that thread at all, Fluff. I'm sure my absence from the discussion demanded huge reams of patience on the part of everyone there. Laughing
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, genuine mistake. (Your avatars are each rather a block of colour). It sure sounded like a reply from you though, and I assumed nobody else was joining the thread anytime soon (while we were conversing so spritedly). Apologies for that at least. But like I say, I'm out of this thread now, unless the OP summons me back. As for yes YOUR comments on that thread Sasha, they really did add nothing more than "Isn't American English, and aren't American people, stupid!?", which was obviously a completely worthless comment, but one that I tried my best to ignore (even though I am not American!).

Last edited by fluffyhamster on Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It sure sounded like a reply from you though,


I am utterly lost. What sure sounded like a reply from me? I've no idea what I was being accused of that required patience. And let's not start slinging mud at people's avatars.....opens far too many possibilities for retaliation.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was talking to Sasha, Spiral. But as you two are singing from the same songbook (well, apart from the endless pro-Soviet/anti-American jokes), what does it really matter LOL. I think people will be able to follow things thus far, anyway. Over and out.

Last edited by fluffyhamster on Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fluffy, now you are putting words into my mouth. We've talked about that before, now, haven't we?

Advice to the original poster - do not assume that you know what students are trying to say, before they actually say it. Do not rush in and finish their sentences for them. Solid advice for when dealing with colleagues as well.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you can go back to that infinitives thread and explain quite what the purpose of your tired jokes there were then, Sasha, if you feel I am putting words into your mouth. I for one would certainly be quite interested in what other meanings you could possibly have meant. I really don't think I misread or misinterpreted you, as your apparent acceptance of my polite but firm replies there showed.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are interested, then I will reply, but on that thread, not this one.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, I'll look out for you there.

Quote:
'Imposing a strain on the reader' is how your Celta trainer would critique writing like that.

One doesn't write enough on the CELTA for it to be a strain on even the writer, let alone the reader!
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you had finished posting here? More swan songs than Frank Sinatra, eh?

As for the Celta, there is some writing, though. Not as much as a Delta or MA, but enough for prose to be mangled and the reader tortured by candidates sloppy enough and inconsiderate enough to come across as semi-literate. One wishes that they shared your habit of re-editing their written work.

Anyway, please allow me to re-direct you to the 'Infinitives without To' thread for my ideological reply to your dastardly calumnies : )
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