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| What is the lowest salary that your University actually pays? |
| Below 4.5k |
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22% |
[ 6 ] |
| 4.5k |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
| 5k |
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29% |
[ 8 ] |
| 5.5k |
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18% |
[ 5 ] |
| 6k |
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11% |
[ 3 ] |
| 6.5k |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 7k |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| 7.5k+ |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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 Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Why should a persons spending habits impact their salary? |
Why should a person's ethnicity impact their spending habits? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Muffintop,
I don't want to get into a fight with you. My observation and knowledge is that the Japanese ARE paid less than westerners in public universities. I don't know how much experience you have with Japanese teachers or their rates of pay in public universities. If you work in a language school, you probably have NO experience with Japanese teachers in public universities.
I do. I've taught almost exclusively in public universities. Everyone knows what the other guy makes. Salary is no secret.
My observation is that the Japanese teachers that I've worked with actually go out less and they are more frugal than their western counterparts because (in my experience) they are much older than the twenty and thirty-something western backpackers and adventurers.. They are in China to supplement pensions. I haven't met a Japanese FT who was younger than forty-five. Most are in their late fifties to late sixties. I worked with with a guy who was seventy-two and who returned to Japan not because of his age, but because he was ready to retire.
Japan has experienced *stagflation* in the past several years and is only recently experiencing a moderate recovery. Don't be naive. Culture certainly can (and does) affect spending habits, especially among people who live abroad and are working to supplement pension and retirement funds.
Jibber jabber? No. You can't rationalize your way through this and ascribe my comments to anything except my observations and Japan's past and present economic woes. Staggflation back home tends to affect spending and saving habits at home AND abroad.
Changes: ethnicity to culture
Hyperinflation to stagflation (a stagnant economy with inflation)
Last edited by Bud Powell on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Why should a persons spending habits impact their salary? Ditto for exchange rate.
Neither affects exchange rate and neither affects salary.
Japanese teachers in public universities tend to be paid less as a matter of course. It's insane for anyone to think that I proposed that their spending habits affect their rate of pay.
It's equally demented to think that I am suggesting that their spending habits affect exchange rate. Exchange rates are set by governments. Japan has experienced hyperinflation for at least the past ten years. This affects the exchange rate.
I believe that the lower rate of pay is because they come out ahead when the exchange yuan for yen, so the Chinese take that into consideration. Is it fair? I don't know. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
The reason I want the lowest rather than the average is precisely because so many different factors can influence the average, such as incremental salary increases and the standard of the Uni. I'm well aware that as we accumulate experience and qualifications, our worth goes up. Averages would be more about how Unis retain teachers.
Also I want to know just how difficult it will be for my Uni to get new teachers if they keep the salary where it is.
I don't know if this makes sense. I'm aware that by asking a narrow question, I'll get a narrow answer. The polls on the forum are fairly basic. |
I agree with the 'lowest' approach as this will give newbies a feeling of the absolute floor.
I did work with a teacher who had moved from an alleged 2500pm gig to our school for the mandatory 5k.
This info from the FAO, but as he was a closet missionary type it was clear he accepted the low paid job to gain access to prospects.
He carried on proselytizing at our school - having groups back to his apartment etc.
If he had been a half-decent teacher I would have been a bit more sympathetic. He was crap and I realised he was oblivious to his student's needs as people who needed English to pursue their careers.
Last edited by Non Sequitur on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Why should a persons spending habits impact their salary? Ditto for exchange rate.
Neither affects exchange rate and neither affects salary.
Japanese teachers in public universities tend to be paid less as a matter of course. It's insane for anyone to think that I proposed that their spending habits affect their rate of pay.
It's equally demented to think that I am suggesting that their spending habits affect exchange rate. Exchange rates are set by governments. Japan has experienced hyperinflation for at least the past ten years. This affects the exchange rate.
I believe that the lower rate of pay is because they come out ahead when the exchange yuan for yen, so the Chinese take that into consideration. Is it fair? I don't know. |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Japanese teachers generally get paid about 20% less than western teachers where I've taught. I thought that it was really unfair until I observed that the Japanese spend little, and their rate of exchange was better than the American exchange. |
The wording of my earlier reply could have certainly been better.
However, you clearly state it's fair that Japanese are paid less because they spend less money. If you want to use adjectives like demented and insane you are free to do so but they apply to your statements more than anything else here.
What would you feel about this statement?
"Americans are paid more in China but it's fair because they spend more money"
Pretty damn stupid huh? |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Japanese teachers are probably paid less than English teachers because speaking Japanese isn't considered as important, useful, or desirable as speaking English. That, and Japanese is usually just a 2nd or 3rd year elective course for most students, English majors for sure. The jibber jabber about the Japanese spending less and thus getting paid less, well that's already been dealt with. |
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Mr. Leafy
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 246
Location: North of the Wall
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Why should a persons spending habits impact their salary? Ditto for exchange rate. Japanese teachers in public universities tend to be paid less as a matter of course. It's insane for anyone to think that I proposed that their spending habits affect their rate of pay.
I believe that the lower rate of pay is because they come out ahead when the exchange yuan for yen, so the Chinese take that into consideration. Is it fair? I don't know. |
It certainly sounded like you were saying that pay and spending were related. It's true that Japanese workers in all professions save a higher proportion of their salary than people in most other countries but that has no effect on pay, or whether that pay is fair or not.
Exchange rates can't affect pay either or UK, NZ, Australian, EU, Canadian workers would ALL get different pay.
One possible reason for pay differences is that, although you say you know everyone's salary, you may not know other factors. If the J teachers got hired abroad, through co-operation with their home university for example, they may be on Japanese-type contracts. This means they will get a bonus equal to about one-two months salary twice a year. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. Leafy wrote: |
| One possible reason for pay differences is that, although you say you know everyone's salary, you may not know other factors. If the J teachers got hired abroad, through co-operation with their home university for example, they may be on Japanese-type contracts. This means they will get a bonus equal to about one-two months salary twice a year. |
This could also be true. I'm not even sure what all the other English teachers get paid at my school, let alone the Japanese teachers or any other nationality. Anyone who says they know all this is blowin smoke (speculation is not fact). Even my post above about the Japanese getting paid less because English is considered more important than Japanese is just a guess (an educated one I think). Anyway I doubt anyone on this forum is too worried about Japanese teachers salaries. |
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teenoso
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 365
Location: south china
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Japan has experienced hyperinflation in the past several years |
You mean deflation, right? Japan has pretty much had low or minus inflation in the past 20 years. No idea how that would impact on someone's thinking.
Anyway, the point about the Japanese teachers' salaries, is that it will skew the results if you include their lower salaries in the poll.
I have worked with younger Japanese teachers, and their workload was sometimes lighter than the English teachers (but they were teaching beginners sometimes , which is harder IMO). But I have never known that their salary was lower.
I don't discuss salaries with fellow FTs, precisely because it can stir up feelings of envy and resentment on both sides.
I have never understood (culturally) why Chinese people are comfortable telling each other their pay.
The exchange rate is an interesting point. Since I have been here the rate has changed from £1 = 15RMB, to £1 = 9 or 10RMB.
Is this relevant to my pay ? well it certainly feels like I am paid more (when I convert) , even though actual pay has not changed here over 5 years. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:46 am Post subject: |
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It has been mentioned before that if you have commitments back home then exchange rate (RMB/??) is extremely relevant.
Generally the RMB has been strengthening against most other currencies, resulting in an increase in the 'send home' surplus. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| I don't discuss salaries with fellow FTs, precisely because it can stir up feelings of envy and resentment on both sides |
Good idea, it can be a sore point. I know what the other teachers make here, but they volunteered the information; I didn't (and wouldn't) ask. Actually, they are all aware that I'm the highest paid teacher here (the FAO told them), but they're all cool with it; I'm also (by far) the most experienced and the only one with an advanced degree, so it makes sense to them. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:18 am Post subject: |
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This is what i wrote:
My observation is that the Japanese teachers that I've worked with actually go out less and they are more frugal than their western counterparts because (in my experience) they are much older than the twenty and thirty-something western backpackers and adventurers.. They are in China to supplement pensions.
Muffintop:
However, you clearly state it's fair that Japanese are paid less because they spend less money.
I said nothing of the kind. I didn't address fairness at all, nor did I express cause and effect regarding their pay scale. I left fairness as a question.
Muffintop:
What would you feel about this statement?
"Americans are paid more in China but it's fair because they spend more money"
Pretty damn stupid huh?
Yes. Damned stupid, but you said it, not I.
Cheers and beers. Really. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
This is what i wrote:
My observation is that the Japanese teachers that I've worked with actually go out less and they are more frugal than their western counterparts because (in my experience) they are much older than the twenty and thirty-something western backpackers and adventurers.. They are in China to supplement pensions.
Muffintop:
However, you clearly state it's fair that Japanese are paid less because they spend less money.
I said nothing of the kind. I didn't address fairness at all, nor did I express cause and effect regarding their pay scale. I left fairness as a question.
Muffintop:
What would you feel about this statement?
"Americans are paid more in China but it's fair because they spend more money"
Pretty damn stupid huh?
Yes. Damned stupid, you said it, not I.
Cheers and beers. Really. |
Yes, you did write that.
| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Japanese teachers generally get paid about 20% less than western teachers where I've taught. I thought that it was really unfair until I observed that the Japanese spend little, and their rate of exchange was better than the American exchange. |
You also wrote this one, which is the point muffintop called into question.
C'mon Bud man up and admit it, you made a dumb statement and got called out on it. It'll blow over faster if you do  |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
This is what i wrote:
My observation is that the Japanese teachers that I've worked with actually go out less and they are more frugal than their western counterparts because (in my experience) they are much older than the twenty and thirty-something western backpackers and adventurers.. They are in China to supplement pensions.
Muffintop:
However, you clearly state it's fair that Japanese are paid less because they spend less money.
I said nothing of the kind. I didn't address fairness at all, nor did I express cause and effect regarding their pay scale. I left fairness as a question.
Muffintop:
What would you feel about this statement?
"Americans are paid more in China but it's fair because they spend more money"
Pretty damn stupid huh?
Yes. Damned stupid, you said it, not I.
Cheers and beers. Really. |
Knock it off. This is EXACTLY what you said. It's sitting right there on page 1 of this thread.
| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Japanese teachers generally get paid about 20% less than western teachers where I've taught. I thought that it was really unfair until I observed that the Japanese spend little, and their rate of exchange was better than the American exchange. |
*bolded for emphasis.
I will give you points for trying to spin that later into something else.
| Bud Powell wrote: |
I said nothing of the kind. I didn't address fairness at all, nor did I express cause and effect regarding their pay scale. I left fairness as a question. |
LOLZ
Is that what you did?
Thanks for the laughs...watching you try to wiggle out of your own words has been highly entertaining. I do appreciate all the effort you have put into it. I truly do. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:47 am Post subject: |
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guys, quit arguing. buddy never stated there was a cause and effect relationship.
| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Japanese teachers generally get paid about 20% less than western teachers where I've taught. I thought that it was really unfair until I observed that the Japanese spend little, and their rate of exchange was better than the American exchange. |
he said (paraphrased) "japanese teachers get paid less. i thought it
was unfair. i noticed they spend less and their pay is worth more
when sent back home. so i guess they're ok with it."
what we have learned here is that foreign japanese teachers are the
lowest paid expats. looks like the CFTOJEU(*) has poor fengshui.
(*) chinese foreign teachers of japanese ethnicity union |
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