Job Discussion Forums

[Sir Winston]

[Bud Powell]

I don't know where you found those recruiters. I think maybe you got sucked into a glitzy website offering adventure, cultural enrichment, etc., etc., etc.. You got sucked into fantasy programs and didn't look at everything that was out there.

Supposedly, you just found Dave's ESL Cafe (I assume this because of your low post count). Had you spent time looking for other resources you would have found whole agencies of recruiters who DO NOT charge the prospective FT a fee. You would NOT have just now found Dave's ESL, a rich source of information.

You'd have found resources such as abroadchina.org, teachchina, esljobs.com , and a host of other resources.

But you didn't. You got into some idiotic programs that do for you what you could have done yourself once you found a recruiter that represents a SCHOOL rather than a PROGRAM.

I've NEVER been asked to pay a fee to a recruiter. I've engaged many recruiters about many different jobs, but I've NEVER been asked to pay a fee. NEVER.

Outfits like Teachaway sells a package that includes TEFL courses for which you pay. Other outfits get you over as a "volunteer" after you pay them a fee which includes an F visa.

Had you asked, and had you taken it upon yourself to find out about other avenues, you would have found that, yes, Virginia, there IS a way.

But you didn't.

[Gummy Bear]

After reading all the above threads I think some people are lucky (who they stuble across first), others are cautious (and verify everything before signing on the dotted line) and some are naive and gullible newbies (have no clue about how things work in China and believe what they want to hear).

I also think we expats have a moral or ethical duty to watch out for one another if we can and that is why I like this forum. Most of the people here are helpful and give good advice.

But let's not kid ourselves about recruiters/agents... There are far more dishonest ones than honest ones and their agenda will always come before ours. Like I said in my OP - they may not really be a scam, but some of them manipulate you and job circumstances so they make the most money and not the teacher they are trying to place.

If YOU were an agent and you had a chance to make 3,000 a month fee and give your client a job that nets him 7,000 a month at job A, or get him job B where he nets 9,000 a month and you collect 1,500 a month in fees, what are YOU going to do?

And what about those low-lifes who convince some newbie that without a TEFL certificate he can never earn more than 10,000 a month, and then just happens to have the card of a pal who can give him a good deal on a TEFL course? This is the kind of hustling and manipulation I am speaking about. Not criminal, not evil - just unethical and wrong - especially when one expat is doing it to another. I sort of expect it from Chinese but not from an expat who probably was once a teacher himself.

[muffintop]

[Bud Powell]

I also think we expats have a moral or ethical duty to watch out for one another if we can and that is why I like this forum.

[Gummy Bear]

[Bud Powell]

Not sure what you are referring to friend. I have no web site. Do you? I teach for a living and I think I have a right to make comments here, just like you no? What web site are you referring to anyway?

Well, if you had done your homework before you even began posting on this forum, you would have found that CFTU has been a weekly topic in this forum for months. Those who post on Daves to poselytize against recruiters and cite websites that post incorrect information and/or unsubstantiated information are suspected of being shills for the CFTU.

Likewise, the many sockpuppets who appear in the forum making the same complaints about China, its citizens, its schools and generally everything Chinese are suspected of being Chinese (especially when their vocabulary and manner of expression gives them away. Anyone remember "popinjay"?). Their motive? To make foreign teachers look like malcontents. These are the Fifty Cent guys and their friends/associates/copycats. Their motive, like those who post on FT forums about recruiters, is to stir up negative emotions.

I'm not sure what end result the CFTU people expect. I am unsure if they are from the east or the west.

My observation is that in general, dissent and complaints are tolerated in this forum. They should be. Most who respond to comments are supportive and really do try to give useful advice and to respond openly and honestly.

However, some people (SURTOUT MOI) are REALLY tired of the BS thrown into the forum in the reasonable expectation that others will respond and try to help. The unsuspecting are drawn to the bait. That's what is irritating.

Unfortunately, the trolls are allowed equal time in this forum largely because the owner and moderators allow free speech and allow a wide latitude in this area.

If this post comes across as too confrontational, I have no apologies.

[Sir Winston]

[johntpartee]

[Sir Winston]

[Banner41]

[muffintop]

+1 internetz to Banner41

[johntpartee]

[Gummy Bear]

Okay, I get it... all the new people who visit this forum must agree with the senior posters on every issue or find another forum eh?

Actually I do agree with John Partee that all agent fees should be paid by the school and not the teacher. BUT let's say the real budget for the teacher is 18,000 per month and but the principal and agent agree to offer the job at 15,000. How would we really know?

[johntpartee]

We don't know. But if the hiree agrees to the wages offered, who cares?