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SENTINEL33
Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 112
Location: Bahrain
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 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
Again read the IRS website. The permanent residency option would allow a person to be outside of the foreign country where their job is located for longer than the 35 or 36 days that the other option (330 days out of a full year option) would allow.
Your posts here are unnecessarily tedious to read, which is why I didn't pull this up earlier. |
My posts are long and tedious because we're talking about a very intricate and involved subject over which there are all kinds of misunderstandings and which applies to every US citizen working abroad. We're not answering questions such as "Should I bring an umbrella to the Middle East?"
-----> And you're STILL presenting incorrect information in your above quoted paragraph:
Neither option (the residency nor the 330 days) addresses or discusses or is concerned with how long you can be out of the "foreign country where [your] job is located."
The 2 options are concerned with how many days or what period of time you can be IN THE USA WITHOUT LOSING YOUR TAX EXEMPT STATUS.
As far as the IRS is concerned, you can be anywhere in the world for as long as you like SO LONG AS YOU'RE NOT IN THE USA. It's got nothing to do with not being at your work location. That's preposterous and shows a fundamental misreading and misunderstanding of what the tax code says in this regard.
Please don't counter with "Read the Website"...that's like saying "Read the FAQ" which everyone knows never helps anyone. Besides, I've been "reading the website" for at least 20 years.......I"ve even been reading the actual print manual long before there was a "website".
It's not a question of "reading the website".....It's a question of reading the information and understanding what it says....or.....not understanding what it says which is most of the reading public. That's why most people seek professional help when doing their taxes. They know (hint hint) they're waaay over their heads when attempting to make heads or tails of the IRS.
Last edited by SENTINEL33 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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In this topic, Sentinel33 has it all correct in his last couple posts, and it is Plumpy who seems to be confused or unable to express his own understanding. This is a tedious and boring topic at best, but my advice to anyone who wants to try to do this on their own (perhaps they can't find someone who knows how to do an expat return), is to read Sentinel's posts and the IRS website and then use Turbo or H&R's commercial programs.
AND if it is your first tax year overseas, don't wait until the last minute... to question. The form 2350 requires that you get back approval from the IRS to use it to delay your return in order to achieve proper status to avoid paying taxes on the overseas income.
VS |
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myohmy
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't forget, you get an automatic 2 month extension if you are overseas on April 15 and on March 14 you can file for a 6 month extension electronically and for free on the Turbo Tax website. |
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SENTINEL33
Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 112
Location: Bahrain
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| myohmy wrote: |
| Don't forget, you get an automatic 2 month extension if you are overseas on April 15 and on March 14 you can file for a 6 month extension electronically and for free on the Turbo Tax website. |
Yes, that's true, but EQUALLY important
1. On your return (when you eventually file) you have to WRITE IN that you were overseas on April 15 - see the directions on how to do this.
2. Most important (and not mentioned by myohmy) you CANNOT EXTEND PAYMENT OF ANY TAXES OWED. You can extend your filing DATE - the date you actually mail in your return - but if any taxes are owed, they have to be PAID no later than 15 April....or you start incurring fines and penalties. (See directions on how to pay taxes without filing your return.....basically it's done electronically).
Please people, do not give out this kind of information unless you know what you're talking about and your statements are COMPLETE. Incomplete information is as bad as incorrect information. |
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08mansoor
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for all the feedback. I just filed my taxes for the 2013 year(prior to KSA). I started work in late November 2013 and did not receive payment til 1st week of January 2014. So I know I have to file taxes for the 2014 year, but do I have to worry about it now, or is this for down the road stuff? I just really want to get the process of being a bonafide expat asap. Cuz I would really like to use my 45 day summer vacation in the US(San Diego). So it would not be a problem if I spend 29 days in the US for the summer? How does the US government/IRS even know if we leave the country(places like Mexico)? Thanks for all the tips. I am really hoping that I could find someone to do my taxes in KSA and not resort to doing it myself or going to HR Block. |
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SENTINEL33
Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 112
Location: Bahrain
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 08mansoor wrote: |
| How does the US government/IRS even know if we leave the country(places like Mexico)? Thanks for all the tips. I am really hoping that I could find someone to do my taxes in KSA and not resort to doing it myself or going to HR Block. |
1. The govt. may not know you left the country at the specific moment you depart, but they could certainly find out in a flash if they wanted to. If you use anything but cash, all it takes is a couple of phone calls and they'll nail you, right to your hotel room in Juarez. If you use cash, it might take a couple of more hours to ferret you out.
2. I wouldn't go to a large tax franchise in the US, but an experienced accountant or CPA can certainly do the job. It'll cost a little more but it would be worth the expense. If you're from the S'Diego area and have family there, someone is bound to know an accountant they've used in the past which they could refer you to. And in a place like S'Diego, there must be dozens of tax professionals who have experience with this "overseas" taxation business given the close proximity to Mexico and the literally millions of US citizens who've retired down there and pay US taxes every year.
3. As for your general "tax" questions, I can't answer any of your questions on this Forum because they relate specifically to your case. And you shoudn't rely on any advice you get here either. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| 08mansoor wrote: |
| Thanks for all the feedback. I just filed my taxes for the 2013 year(prior to KSA). I started work in late November 2013 and did not receive payment til 1st week of January 2014. So I know I have to file taxes for the 2014 year, but do I have to worry about it now, or is this for down the road stuff? I just really want to get the process of being a bonafide expat asap. Cuz I would really like to use my 45 day summer vacation in the US(San Diego). So it would not be a problem if I spend 29 days in the US for the summer? How does the US government/IRS even know if we leave the country(places like Mexico)? Thanks for all the tips. I am really hoping that I could find someone to do my taxes in KSA and not resort to doing it myself or going to HR Block. |
I don't fear giving some general advice on your situation.
How convenient for you that your employer didn't pay you until 2014. It simplifies your "tax life" a lot.  2013 is done and filed.
Naturally you will report all of the income received in 2014 on your tax return next year. Because you are overseas, you have an automatic extension to June 15, 2015 and most of us file an extension 4868 which gives us until August 15, 2015. That should give you time to find someone to help you file this return.
Although you have 45 days of holiday, I would plan to be out of the US for at least the minimum of 330 days of calendar year 2014. Nowadays with computers, they can easily check your time in the US, so I certainly wouldn't try to lie about it. Spending part of your 45 days in Mexico would be acceptable. You now have to provide your passport even if you walk across the border, so they would know exactly when you are in the US. Another way to spend the extra 10+ days is to do a stopover and spend some time in Europe or Asia (depending on your flights) each way.
By the end of 2014 you will be a bona fide expat and from 2015 onward, you can spend as long as you want in the US and no longer have to keep track of your days.
VS
(all of the tax rules can be read online at the IRS website) |
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myohmy
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| VS-Why do you insist on telling people they have to first meet the physical presence test before they are considered a bonafide resident? It is simply not true. If one spends an entire tax year as a resident of a foreign country, then they can claim to be a bonafide resident and can leave for as long and as often as they like as long as the intent is to return. I have read the requirements over and over and nowhere does it say anything like you say. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have NEVER told anyone that they HAVE to do this... nor have I ever said that it says so on the IRS website, because it doesn't. It is just the easiest way to do it without attracting any unwanted attention to yourself from the IRS.
You can do as you wish, but be ready to prove that you lived overseas for the 12 months of that first year, if you spent 2-3 months of it in the US during the summer. It can be done, but dealing with IRS audits from overseas are a nightmare. You run into the same problem that many people have finding a tax accountant that understands form 2555... and IRS agents, like customs agents, never admit that they don't know everything... even when they are totally wrong.
I prefer to help people avoid problems, not cause them for themselves.
VS |
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