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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| sicklyman wrote: |
| funnily enough, Aramco were more interested in my DELTA than my MA in TESOL... |
That's very likely because your MA was completed via distance learning while the Delta was not. |
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sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah, but then since I've been with the company, the guy who hired me has paid more respect to what I learned from my MA than my DELTA. Whatever... |
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The Angry Brit
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Dear robhenniker,
You have a number of options with your qualifications. You could try to squeeze out as much money as possible and work for a military contractor, an Aramco ITC, Saudi Electric direct or through Amideast. Even an Aramco direct is worth tossing in a CV. In each of these cases (except Aramco CPP) the students present unique challenges that many teachers abhor. The money is good, but it can be something of a dead-end. It may be a little more difficult to transition into a university job later. On the other hand, you can take the road of greater ease and work at KFUPM. Lot's of holidays, only 20 contact hours, but you'll only start at about 13,500. Overtime is an option, but only for the most obsequious or select members of an exclusive social clique. The best advantage is that it could lead to greener university pastures if, and only if, you plan your exit upon arrival.
I agree with VS. Try the UAE where the pay is better and lifestyle too. It's more competitive and without Gulf experience you're at a disadvantage, but it's worth a try. Your backup plan could be a Saudi university as a step towards something more professionally civilized. |
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ttxor1
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| The Angry Brit wrote: |
| It may be a little more difficult to transition into a university job later. |
just curious, why is this? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:01 am Post subject: |
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University employers may not consider it related experience.
VS |
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The Angry Brit
Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
University employers may not consider it related experience.
VS |
Yes, that's precisely it.
By transition I mean 'get hired', not adapt or cope. There's is a distinction made out there between EAP and General English. Universities require EAP with an emphasis on writing. The programs listed above are normally General English with an ESP aspect, often viewed in recruitment circles as different than EAP.
The transition can be made of course. There are lots of examples because as we know numerous factors influence who gets hired. The only advice I'd give to someone trying to move into universities is to emphasize any EAP experience, writing experience, and then spin your General English experience as evidence of expertise with lesson prep, assessment, classroom management, multi-level classes, commitment to education, etc... |
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ttxor1
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: GE vs EAP/ESP |
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| The Angry Brit wrote: |
| There's is a distinction made out there between EAP and General English |
yes, The Angry Brit, there is...
Notes graciously provided to me from the MA TESOL team at a well respected UK uni
-In GE the language itself is the focus, the subject matter and the purposes of the course whereas in ESP English is a means to an end for the acquisition of some other knowledge or skills
-In GE all four language skills; listening, reading, speaking and writing, are stressed equally while in ESP it is a needs analysis that determines which language skills are most needed by the students, and the syllabus is designed accordingly. An ESP course might, for example, emphasize the development of spoken skills in students who are studying English in order to become tourist guides.
Ideas and Options in English for Specific Purposes, by Helen Basturkmen, ESL and Applied Linguistics Professional Series, Eli Hinkel (Ed), Lawrence Erlbaum Associates Publishers, Malwah, N.J. London
Whereas General English Language teaching tends to set out from point A toward an often pretty indeterminate destination, setting sail through largely unchartered waters, ESP aims to speed learners through to a known destination. The emphases in ESP on going from A to B in the most time and energy efficient matter can lead to the view that ESP is an essentially practical endeavor...(9)
Structuration Theory
In recent years the approach to language description for English for Academic Purposes developed by John Swales (1990) [Genre Analysis: English in Academic and Professional Settings, CUP] has been embraced by ESP. This approach has an evolving theory of language use in discourse communities, such as specific academic or professional groups, and views language as genres characterized by communicative purpose and distinct patterns of moves in them. The key linguistic unit in this approach is genre...The focus on how genres emerge and develop demands a vision not just of language and text but also of society and how it functions. in short, it needs to be related to a social theory....(10)
| The Angry Brit wrote: |
| The only advice I'd give to someone trying to move into universities is to emphasize any EAP experience, writing experience, and then spin your General English experience as evidence of expertise with lesson prep, assessment, classroom management, multi-level classes, commitment to education, etc... |
this is excellent advice, The Angry Brit (by the way, why are you angry?). i've found, and i think others who have posted here have too, that the job market for university positions is really tough Stateside AND for benny rich international uni positions. Even a MA degree from a Global Top 75 university, unfortunately for me, is not really valued until the applicant has POST MA experience to show that his/her teaching skills were informed by said MA studies.... the freshly minted MA is good enough to get an offer from some respected direct-hire international uni jobs, but, as has been discussed elsewhere at daves, one might receive a basic starting salary close to someone with a BA + CELTA/DELTA + say, 5-10 years post CELTA/DELTA experience....esp if that experience was in an EAP/IEP setting... those of us who started their career in the schools in South Korea, with various government sponsored invitation programs, and then have gone back to do the MA just have to be patient for good EAP/IEP jobs Stateside and elsewhere, I think.
Stateside, I feel completely shut out of the market: Judging by the complete lack of responses from ANY US unis I have applied to (University of Oregon, Houston Community College, Seattle Community Colleges to name a few), I feel that theren't very many entry level positions open to those that ONLY have PRE-MA experience. It also depends on what the nature of that pre MA experience was, and how it meets the demands of the current potential employer.
Maybe you can give me insight into this, but I suspect the market for good university EAP/ESP positions in the UK is really tight and only goes to very experienced tutors....I admit that I have not yet really scoured the UK forums on daves on this matter, but I'm sure someone can help me out here... |
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MsBlackcurrant
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| cultofpersonality wrote: |
| A few places don't care about a CELTA if you already have an M.A. in TESOL. CELTA is only really necessary and sought after if your first degree was in something non-ESL or education related. CELTA is a really basic teaching qualification and a lot of places are OK with people just having the MA TESOL. I do not have a CELTA but I have a PGCE teaching credential which is more valued in certain parts. I will also have a Masters as well. I knew of a few teachers who didn't have a CELTA. |
Is this in Saudi? That's interesting.
I failed to take good advice, and started a blended TESOL cert rather than a totally on-site one. If I do a relevant MA in several years' time after teaching in China might I be able to get a job at a Saudi university? (As it happens, I do have a PGCE but it's not in TESOL.)
Alternatively, it might be cheaper for me to cut my losses and do an on-site course, since not all jobs in Saudi seem to require an MA. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| MsBlackcurrant wrote: |
| Alternatively, it might be cheaper for me to cut my losses and do an on-site course, since not all jobs in Saudi seem to require an MA. |
Keep in mind that without a relevant MA, you'll be limited to working for contracting companies and not as a university direct hire. |
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MsBlackcurrant
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm. I'm sure you're right. But I can't be too choosy, as I've already spent most of my life studying, and having hit middle age I need to start saving some money!
Do the recruitment agencies take short specialised courses into consideration? I've noticed that several British universities and language schools offer short courses in Teaching English for Academic Purposes. That's something that would be of interest to me. |
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lcanupp1964
Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I know from experience (when I directly supported the recruitment unit at the ELI at KAU) that they mostly look at the big three: BA in related area, MA in related area, and if the person applying has a 120 hour plus TESOL/TEFL/CELTA not done on-line. In my case, I have two "add-ons" that were both 50 hour courses and they didn't even bother to submit them to main HR for salary approval. I think I may have max out on money, but they said that the "extra" stuff is never officially reviewed. |
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ttxor1
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| cultofpersonality wrote: |
| I do not have a CELTA but I have a PGCE teaching credential which is more valued in certain parts. |
yes, cultofpersonality, i think with international schools... others more experienced can correct me on this, but i think this is more content subject matter teaching rather than EFL... i should add to my post above that those with state teaching licensure and an ELL endorsement probably cover the CELTA requirement... my understanding is that PGCE is the British = to an American state teaching licensure and that usually is a combo with a BA in Education |
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cultofpersonality
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, you're are right, PGCE is more related to content teaching than EFL. I've seen a few places advertise for teachers with state teaching qualifications. Obviously, not all places ask for these type of qualifications but it does happen. From what I have heard, the CELTA equips you with certain teaching methods rather than grammatical knowledge. It's a qualification which states your competence to teach. I could be wrong because I haven't done a CELTA. International schools and some universities are very interested in the PGCE from what I have gathered. There are some universities that as for an MA in TESOL without specifying a teaching qualification. The vast majority of contracting companies are content with a BA/BSc in any discipline + CELTA or a BEd. |
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