Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject:

Dear grayskies,

I'm sorry (and I'm really not being snide here) that you had such a lousy time teaching in Saudi. I guess a lot of people do. I wouldn't have stayed as long as I did if I hadn't enjoyed my work there because the money, by itself, wouldn't have been enough inducement.

Regards,
John

grayskies · Joined: 03 Dec 2013 Posts: 67

John, some were lousy, and some were good. However, I believe the point that Sent...33 was making, it is better to have a low profile, than to create unnecessary attention to yourself. You remember the age ole saying, "when in Rome."

SENTINEL33 · Joined: 19 Jan 2014 Posts: 112 Location: Bahrain

grayskies · Joined: 03 Dec 2013 Posts: 67

Like I said, the most informative and accurate I've seen on Daves.

lol Laughing

johnslat · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject:

Dear SENTINEL 33.

Jeepers, touched a nerve there, did I? Hey, as I said, if being a slacker is your method, well, fine - whatever works for you:

"As everyone knows, the key to survival in the Kingdom is to drag your feet as much as possible, do as little as you can at the job (never volunteer, never say you're an "expert" at anything and so forth), never attempt to "stand out", and always look miserable."

Personally, I like to do the best job I can. and a large part of that is because if I don't, I feel I'm letting myself down

I really don't care what anyone else does or doesn't do, and I certainly don't make up projects for others. I mind my own business and go home, knowing that I did as good a job as I'm capable of doing.

That works for me - but if dragging your feet works for you, fine.

Regards,
John

mikepsyc · Joined: 09 Jan 2012 Posts: 1

"3. In the highly unlkely circumstance that you "know" Arabic, this should never be mentioned or even hinted at. It's like a death blow to your application. I wouldn't even mention that you're "studying" the language if that's the case."

Sentinel33: I fit that highly unlikely scenario, since I'm a native speaker of English who has become fluent in Arabic (think long, drawn out technical discussions about industrial worksites in Arabic or explaining in Arabic the difference between a dependent clause and independent clause) and I mention it.

Where have you heard that indicating that you know Arabic is the kiss-of-death for applicants? Inquiring minds would urgently like to know.

SENTINEL33 · Joined: 19 Jan 2014 Posts: 112 Location: Bahrain

SENTINEL33 · Joined: 19 Jan 2014 Posts: 112 Location: Bahrain

johnslat · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:03 pm Post subject:

Dear SENTINEL33,

"Personally, I like to do the best job I can. and a large part of that is because if I don't, I feel I'm letting myself down.

That's your Protestant upbringing and work ethic coming through. You're probably one of those guys that also "voluntarily" pays a tithe of some kind to some "organization".

The problem with this is that in the Gulf area, that means you end up doing most of the work to the admiration and clapping of your collegues. (You'll deny this of course, but so be it)."

Don't get it, do you? Your long-distance profile is batting 0. I wasn't brought up Protestant, and, as an agnostic, I pay no tithes. I never did anyone else's work - only my own, and I don't give a damn about anyone else's opinion of me.

You're going to have to explain to me what this means:

"And the Lion Lay Down With the Lamb"

But it's nice to see that you're so proud of being a slacker because, after all, having a good self-image is important.

"I don't even "drag" my feet. I refuse to even get up from the chair."

Regards,
John

CANDLES · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:05 pm Post subject:

You know John there are plenty of 'slackers' out in KSA & Oman ( my workplaces) who even though they were useless were/are still employed and getting good salaries, whereas hardworking people like me and similar minded people got overlooked, got taken for granted and eventually left.

The slackers are going to be slackers whatever part of the world they are in, and the rest of us carry the can for them.

As for knowing Arabic and seeing that as a deterrent -that's news to me!
There are some very odd people about in this world and they all roost together. Crying or Very sad

johnslat · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:06 am Post subject:

Dear CANDLES,

Well, the only time I'm personally affected by slackers (and/or incompetent teachers) is when I'm unlucky enough to get their students at the next level.

When I was at the IPA, there were very, very few such - and that very, very few didn't last long. So, I almost never had that problem.

Same thing where I'm working now. My luck seems to be holding. Very Happy

Regards,
John

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

It is likely that the Arabic or not question is employer related. Universities are likely accepting of it, especially if you can point to how even limited knowledge of the language can help you in the classroom. Not to translate, but to understand why, for instance, Arabic speakers overuse run-ons and comma splices. I always mentioned in my CV that I had survival skills in Egyptian Arabic.

But, I suspect that Western employers of EFL courses for military related contracts might look at it with suspicion. Not sure of how oil related contractors would feel about it.

VS

grayskies · Joined: 03 Dec 2013 Posts: 67

John, I believe you have become overly sensitive, and have hijacked this thread. If you would like to call us 'slackers', because we choose to keep a low profile to fit in, then so be it. We are, what we are.

Arab speakers do not imagine Westerners speaking fluent Arabic. As mentioned earlier, some understand survival Arabic as a means to 'fit in'.

It has been my experience in the KSA to keep a very low profile. The native Arabic speakers (Lebanese, Syrian, Egytpian, etc.) are not impressed by Westerners who can speak fluent Arabic. In fact, it is simply another thing to create a wider divide between the two.

The Saudis are an entirely different matter. In my experience-as a Westerner, they do not see us as obedient. Therefore, a fluent speaker in Arabic can be viewed as a potential headache.

We all have different experiences from our workplace(s), and I'm certain they're not the same, but there is no need to make them an on-going issue and become judgmental through responses.

CANDLES · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:25 am Post subject:

Grayskies....

Even after all the long discussion, I still don't get what you are saying.

1) Arabic-how is that holding you back? Why would Arabs view us Westerners with suspicion if we speak Arabic; fluently or basic? Would you say the same thing if we spoke French/German/Italian etc when in those countries?

2) Keep a low profile -what exactly is that? Does that mean when after finishing your classes, you hide in your corner with the headphones on, or disappear in the toilets, only to be seen again when it's time to go home.

3)]Why are you creating this 'them' and 'us' situation?

4) How long have you been in KSA?

I've met a lot of Westerners in KSA who look down on Arabs, but are still there for the money. That I find distasteful.

Most of us get on with our jobs, help out when needed and if something is wrong will say so, politely. I don't need to bang the drums.