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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:13 am Post subject: |
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I recently lost my grandfather, and we got to see him one last time in the hospital.
He was pretty ill by that point though and had not much energy left.
I started to break down a bit and he turned his head to me and said
"Listen.......cough cough cough.....cough cough....dont make the mistakes I made...."
There was a long pregnant pause, I thought he had gone. But he prised open his eyes, turned his head and with his dying breath whispered
".......Interac"
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Haha, this cracked me up.
Anyway, to get from N5 to N3(not just to pass the test but to be able to use it in speech fairly fluently) would probably take about 2-3 years in my opinion. less if you're gifted and study a lot, more if you're thick and lazy. But even that level is not enough to go and work in a Japanese environment. You should be aiming for N2 really, and to be able to use it comfortably in speech. Something that I'm still a couple years away from, and I've learnt much quicker than most. To cut a long story short, you're probably not going to be able to work in a standard Japanese company at least until you're in your mid thirties.
I have met a few guys that worked in Japanese companies with no Japanese, but they had an extremely desirable skill set, it sounds like you do not (sorry, just being blunt with you).
You don't need to speak Japanese to marry a Japanese women, I know plenty of people who can't speak a lick of Japanese who are married to Japanese women. I have no respect for them, but there are many out there..
Another thing relating to money that I think people should keep in mind is that this is the 20th century, many women work. Even with a bog standard ALT job(250,000), a few privates (50,000) and a partner who works part time (100,000) plus all the little tax breaks and benefits you get for having children, you'll be able to pull in enough to have, in my opinion, a comfortable life. There's no reason that any loser with zero Japanese can't do that! Unless of course you marry a woman who wants to sit at home all day while the kids are at school.
Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about the future recently. Many of my friends are taking online masters degrees etc and I was considering doing the same. But the conclusion I came to is that it's not worth it anymore. It costs thousands of dollars to do(along with thousands of hours of your time), then you need to get publications and search for a job at a university. This can be very competitive and to give yourself the best chances of getting a job, you'll need to be prepared to move anywhere.
If you're lucky enough to get the job, you'll be paid between 300,000 and 500,000 and be given 2-5 years of work, after which you'll have to search for a job all over again. And with so many people getting these masters degrees, at some point you're gonna run out of luck and be forced to go back to eikaiwa or ALT work. Then there's the age limit, many of these universities don't want older men working or them, so what are you going to do in 15 years time when masters degrees are even more worthless and there's hundreds of younger good looking guys/girls competing in the market?
No, IMO the only way to live a secure family life in Japan is to work for a Japanese company, have a wife who's willing to work a bit or create something for yourself (a school, business, private lessons etc). |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| But then again, I have no experience in doing a masters or working at universities. This is just the impression I've been given. Other forum member probably know better, but I'm getting well off topic now anyway. |
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2buckets
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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TFox,
The money is there somewhere. You just have to suss it out.
Japan is still a rich country. You probably don't meet many rich businessmen in the EFL scene, but they are definitely there in other situations. My first job was for a small operation in Osaka called "ON Time Corp". I taught some engineers, they all wanted private tutoring. A crummy job like that opened the door for more lucrative opportunities.
If you use your imagination and are persistent, you'll find it.
Making the contacts is the key. Admittedly I had the perfect situation at the night club to do that. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Yeah this all sounds right to me. Ive been here about two years ish and never meant to stay all that long. I think I am going to go part time soon as Im not very happy with my company.
On the whole though, well basically my gf's job is the reason Im here and if it came to the push it wouldnt be that bad staying longer term. Between us we make enough to live in a big apartment in an ok area and we are saving as well. There is even enough room in here to house a baby if we had one an we are moving to a cheaper place when the contract is done.
If you weighed up the household income we have then together I guess we are doing quite well.
I also think there is a lot of opportunity out there it is just getting your hustle on to find it.
My idea for going part time is largely to get some independence and seek out some opportunities.
Ive got ideas and etc on how to progress here but what is standing out, worldwide, at the moment is that "job for life" at one company might well be a dying concept. People are starting to rethink how they make a living everywhere I think. |
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move
Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
From your posts, this is what I've gathered (but feel free to correct me if any are inaccurate):
1) You don't really know what you want to do for a career
2) Whatever you do, you want there to be a clear path for advancement
3) You don't see how EFL teaching in Japan can give you a ladder to climb, but it would at least get you physically present in Japan
4) You don't think your current job offers chances to climb a ladder either, but at least you can save some money (albeit while living with your parents)
5) You don't necessarily like finance, but you think it would be not that bad, and you think there would be opportunities in Japan in this field (and, I presume, you think this field would have a ladder to climb)
6) You want to learn Japanese, and use it for work, somehow
I would not suggest working in an eikaiwa or as an ALT just as a way to be in Japan if you have no interest in teaching. Some people do it, but I wouldn't recommend it. You say you want to be in Japan and learn Japanese, but to what end?
Do you think you would enjoy finance? If so, then I'd choose that route if I were you.
In the end, no matter what advice people on here give you, you are the one that needs to make this decision. |
I agree with this assessment. To it I might add a few things:
Do you have any experience teaching? Do you like it? You don't know till you try, it's like people saying they love cooking and want to be a chef and then they become a line cook in a restaurant and can't handle the stress. Well, I guess teaching isn't that stressful, but you get my point.
Sounds like one of your major concerns is getting a Japanese lady, which is fine. I have heard that in general, if you had some dates at home, you will have more here. If you do stay in your own country though, move out of mom and dad's place. You don't need to be embarrassed about it, but American women aren't going to go for that. Japanese women on the other hand usually live at home till later on, and I'm sure little Yuki will be more than happy to escape from her parents' house and hang out in your Leo Palace apartment. Perhaps what you really desire is the independence? Saving up over a grand each month is commendable but I think of saving money as a long-term goal.
You won't learn much Japanese in an Eikaiwa. The people around you all day are there to learn English, not the other way around. You get home at 9 or 10 at night and you probably won't want to study. Or...if you are self-disciplined you can get up in the morning and study. Are you a person that can go for a morning run?
You say that you always wanted to be an English teacher, but don't want to ONLY be an English teacher. I take this to mean that you don't want to be 60 and still doing head, shoulders, knees and toes with a bad back. There are several paths for advancing your career in education. However, you said you couldn't write papers which getting a Master's degree requires. International schools require teaching credentials from home. Which leaves you with opening your own eikaiwa in Japan.
As for working in corporate Japan, I am sure some people have schedules which aren't too bad, but for the most part Japanese people put in long hours. Plus there is often the pressure to socialize with coworkers after work. I couldn't do it, personally speaking. I think that is a moot point anyway though, because right now your language abilities aren't up to N2 level. You could study Japanese intensively here for a few years but by that time you will be nearing thirty, and probably not have significantly improved your skill set during that time. You would be competing with other fresh out of uni grads whose possess perfect language skills, and are more than eager to be turned into suit-wearing corporate drones.
I have to agree with the other posters and say that you should stay in the business field back at home. Hopefully you get offered one of those jobs which will give you more options as well as income with which to plan for your future. If not, look into companies that do business with Japan, and which might offer the possibility of transferring there in the future or frequent business trips.
In the meantime, you might consider moving out or studying Japanese at a nearby school, or getting a private tutor. Maybe that will give you the change of pace that you desire, until you can make some plans that are more favorable. Everybody needs a break from their usual routine once in a while, that's probably why most of us are here. |
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redstanggt01
Joined: 10 Sep 2013
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I guess one point is true that I do need independence. I can work at home for two more years trying to save money while job searching. Not sure how likely it is though that I can find anything here. I would like a job that can send me over there constantly, but I think you need language skills anyways to apply for those types of positions. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that though, as I would very much like to be. There's also the fact that some people tell me to live for today and not for tomorrow too. To be honest...I think if I had to put up with two more years working 8am-7pm or later and stayed home while having no social life (staying at mom and dads), I'd go nuts haha. Also saving money is important to me, but I don't have much left of my 20's either. Not saving money though would mean no language school in the future...I think maybe I'm overwhelming myself a lot here..probably a trait of my aspergers I guess lol.
I guess for most of my life, I keep trying to live in the future and plan ahead, but most of my plans have never really worked. I've tried for JET twice, Interac twice and many other positions and have never gotten in, but surprisingly I finally found an offer with this company. Some people say one bird in hand is worth two in the bush (with the two in the bush being the other companies at home I interviewed with). Who knows? The only thing I really know at this point is that life is really uncertain. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| redstanggt01 wrote: |
| Well, I guess one point is true that I do need independence. I can work at home for two more years trying to save money while job searching. Not sure how likely it is though that I can find anything here. I would like a job that can send me over there constantly, but I think you need language skills anyways to apply for those types of positions. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that though, as I would very much like to be. |
I would recommend NOT taking a job in finance just because you might get a chance to travel to Japan for work. Take a job in finance because you like finance. Within that field, sure, apply to companies that might be able to send you to Japan, but I wouldn't make that the reason for choosing a field to work in.
If your #1 priority is getting to Japan, then take the eikaiwa job. It's not permanent, and you can definitely have a decent life teaching English, if that's something you enjoy. If you don't know if you enjoy it, then you should try it out first. That's something you can do at your local refugee center / library / university / etc. Keep in mind potential consequences, such as the likelihood of returning to your present job (if that's something you might want to do).
I think it sounds like you need to take like a month off of work, come to Japan, and study intensively at a language school for that month. Then, you can decide whether that's something you want to pursue more. |
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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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2buckets,
your comments related to teaching private students English, and that is what I responded too. in the ESL industry, times are harder now and it is not the 1970s. but, you may right if you willing to try other things as well there are ways to get more money. i find getting / arranging privates pretty hard work to keep going personally... |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, things are getting tough. I am just part-time and went to Hello Work to get unemployment insurance. It could last for a few months so I guess I will be ok for now, but by September I need to make money.
To the OP, just stay where you are. If you are interested in finance, why don`t you study Chinese instead? |
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surendra
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, a lot to read so I briefly skimmed so I can throw in my 2 yen.
I did an Eikaiwa job. It is what you make of it. I change my sleep schedule to revolve around my job and that hurt me. I couldn't study or meet people. But you definitely could.
Also, all of my friends who are N2 and N1 level studied at a University, full-time. I have NEVER see someone reach N2 on their own without some time spent in Uni learning. If you ever want to do business in Japan or for a company, N2 is the lowest they go.
I don't want to discourage you because I am also 26, returned to America, and planning to travel to teach again.
TL;DR: If you are worrying about the future too much, then you aren't living in the present. Smartly do what you think will make you most happy. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| surendra wrote: |
| Also, all of my friends who are N2 and N1 level studied at a University, full-time. I have NEVER see someone reach N2 on their own without some time spent in Uni learning. If you ever want to do business in Japan or for a company, N2 is the lowest they go. |
I'll disagree with you a bit here. I know many people who reached that high without ever studying Japanese before coming to Japan. Personally, I reached (the old) level 2 three years after coming to Japan with zero knowledge of Japanese, while working as an ALT. I took a class for once a week for a couple months when I first arrived, but after that, just used it as much as I could. I lived in a small town, so I needed to use Japanese a lot. After a couple more years working at an eikaiwa and using Japanese with friends outside of work, reading things online, and watching Japanese TV, I reached (the old) level 1. It takes some discipline, some effort, and probably a bit of language learning aptitude, but it's not necessary to study full-time at a university. |
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SunShan
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
First of all, what kind of life do you want?
If you want to live in your home country for the rest of your life, have a nice flash car that you drive from work to your nice big house which you then sit in and watch television all evening, every evening for the rest of your life, while taking a holiday once a year with your family then by all means stay where you are. That's fine, Lots of people want that and seem to enjoy living a life that mostly consists of comparing what they have to the guy next door.
I think many of the unhappy people in Japan are the ones that have a similar mindset or who marry a girl who craves such a life.
If however, you put more value on experiences and living a fulfilling life then perhaps Japan is the place for you. |
Exactly! OP, do you want to carry on flatlining, or develop a heartbeat? Ignore the BS from the naysayers. Just get out here and enjoy every second. Worst case is it's not for you after a couple of years. Worst case. You're still young enough to reinvent yourself either way. Like a post before said - live in the present not the future. |
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SunShan
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
First of all, what kind of life do you want?
If you want to live in your home country for the rest of your life, have a nice flash car that you drive from work to your nice big house which you then sit in and watch television all evening, every evening for the rest of your life, while taking a holiday once a year with your family then by all means stay where you are. That's fine, Lots of people want that and seem to enjoy living a life that mostly consists of comparing what they have to the guy next door.
I think many of the unhappy people in Japan are the ones that have a similar mindset or who marry a girl who craves such a life.
If however, you put more value on experiences and living a fulfilling life then perhaps Japan is the place for you. |
Exactly! OP, do you want to carry on flatlining, or develop a heartbeat? Ignore the BS from the naysayers. Just get out here and enjoy every second. Worst case is it's not for you after a couple of years. Worst case. You're still young enough to reinvent yourself either way. Like a post before said - live in the present not the future. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| I'm going to have to disagree with you too. Attaining N2 ability is perfectly possible without studying at university, or in any formal classes for that matter. I know a few people who have done it and I'm hoping to get it for myself this year. My speaking is already better than a lot of people I know who studied at university and have N2. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:08 am Post subject: |
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And now for something completely different.
Thinking long, combining what you have now with what you want with earning a solid long-lasting credential: there's the business school route.
A few programs offer MBAs that have a strong international component requiring language/cultural study alongside business administration studies. Some programs even have study-abroad/internship-abroad possibilities that may lead to work abroad in the future.
Off the top of my head, the following programs do offer a Japanese component:
University of South Carolina Darla Moore School of Business http://mooreschool.sc.edu
University of Hawaii-Manoa Shidler College of Business http://shidler.hawaii.edu (They actually offer a specialized Japan-Track Global MBA)
Thunderbird School of Global Management http://www.thunderbird.edu
Penn Wharton School of Business http://www.wharton.upenn.edu
(They offer a very nice dual-degree program: Joseph H. Lauder Institute of Management and International Studies (MBA/MA)
Just my two yen.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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