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Ethan T
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| There are many methods other than TEFL. However this is a TEFL forever and you have to figure out your passion. What are you doing in NZ? Maybe you could do that somewhere |
I came here on a working holiday visa and am currently working in both organics and software (a weird combination, I know). I am passionate about many fields, though. Organics, health, English, history, computers and agriculture are but a few. The issue is that everywhere wants qualifications. I understand the need to have evidence that one understands the subject, however I personally think it has gotten a bit past the parameters of logic. As I said before, I just simply want to be somewhere outside the USA, and will use any area of interest I have. English seems like one of the more potential routes to take.
It is not as if I am foreign to the concept of teaching. I would help quite a few people years back in learning subjects during school, and at one point I was practically teaching my government class. I know it is nothing much, but I have always enjoyed teaching, and have been told that I am good at it by those who listened to me. What I am saying is that this is not just a job, but something that I would enjoy, as with some of the other fields above. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:45 am Post subject: |
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The same arguments presented by every wannabe teacher who has no credentials.
It always begs the same question however:
Why does someone who doesn't value an education enough to get one (for whatever reason they may have for not getting one) think they are somehow qualified to give one?
Even in your home country (along with just about every other developed or developing country on the planet) people expect their teachers to be educated to a first degree level and it is usually a requirement (not an option)if one wants to become a teacher.
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Ethan T wrote: |
| The issue is that everywhere wants qualifications. I understand the need to have evidence that one understands the subject, however I personally think it has gotten a bit past the parameters of logic. |
That argument has worn out its welcome. I suggest you take a look at:
"Is a uni degree a worthwhile investment to teach english?" http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=107088 |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ethan T wrote: |
Does anyone know any specific parts of South America or is it just a "grab bag" of sorts? |
Peru, possibly, as most people work there without a visa. Colombia, but none of the half decent schools will be interested. Ecuador, but again, not the better schools, and with the current drive to raise standards I would expect it to become a visa issue very soon.
| Ethan T wrote: |
| If I did get TEFL, it would most likely be from one of the "big 3". |
In Ecuador at least you would have to get a CELTA or SIT. Even the Trinity (which is otherwise a perfectly good cert) isn't well known here.
| Ethan T wrote: |
| Which would be considered more valuable - experience or a degree? |
The degree, because it often determines whether or not you can get a visa, regardless of whether you can get an actual job.
Just to clarify, just because I am saying this is possible, does not mean I am recommending it. The jobs that will be available to you, will be the ones that other people don't want, they are also likely to be hourly paid and you need to have a realistic plan to support yourself if you have to go weeks or even months with little or no income.
I do know other people who have come to Ecuador under similar conditions. 1 guy did well for himself, but he had a lot of prior experience (not just teaching, but also real world business experience). The others left once their initial 6 month visas expired. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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And slightly as an aside... if you want to be able to find work and not have to go home.... the trades are ALWAYS an option.
Get qualified in HVAC, plumbing, appliance repair, etc... you will always find enough work to pay the rent and put food on the table.
You still need to learn the trade (and it will take more than 30 days) but it will be cheaper and faster than a degree.
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lucifer911
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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lol.. I was thinking of deleting that thread but I guess it has its usefulness in situations like this 
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Ethan T wrote: |
| The issue is that everywhere wants qualifications. I understand the need to have evidence that one understands the subject, however I personally think it has gotten a bit past the parameters of logic. |
That argument has worn out its welcome. I suggest you take a look at:
"Is a uni degree a worthwhile investment to teach english?" http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=107088 |
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lucifer911
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Where do I go? No degree or experience. |
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Ethan I am 10 years older than you have plenty of experience in the workforce. I am currently having issues due to job security in my own job as a security professional and I really cannot control forces in the stratosphere but I can seek and gain more qualifications and skills for a new career - it is never too late. I am Australian and have completed a similar online TEFL course as the course you are mentioning, however, I have found out this is not the desired TEFL course desired by employers worldwide. You will need to find a TEFL course which typically lasts for 4 weeks and has at least 100-120 contact hours in person excluding the hours you need to study outside the class.
You have a slight advantage over me in the sense that United States is bordered to Mexico and Latin America. I do not recommend blowing your money on a CELTA course just yet. I really like the volunteer idea even if it is for a short time you will gain experience and gain a clearer direction of what you want to do in life. When I was 21 I was training to become a medical scientist at university. It was only when I got deeper in my studies I started to lose passion in the area because my profession as a scientist depended heavily on government funding and at the same time employers wanted graduates to hold masters, PHDs, and honours degree as the minimum qualification. Outside of my university studies I was working as a gymnast teacher in a very nice private school for children ranging from 5 years old to 11 years old. I did this job for 3 years and I really enjoyed the challenge of teaching and I know this is the right career path for me. I have arranged to go back and finish a university degree because it fulfills the VISA requirement and shows the employer you take your profession seriously enough to get the qualification.
So because you are still young I highly recommend the volunteer idea even if it is for a very short time with or without pay. I would hold off on an expensive TEFL qualification and opt for a college degree first. You do not have be a TEFL teacher if you love travelling. Tourism and flight attendant jobs are great jobs to undertake while studying at college or determining where you want to go in life. At the age of 21 you are quite capable of changing career directions several times in the future. I know plenty of university graduates who finish their degrees and disliked their studies and opted to work in a job completely unrelated. When you get back to United States seek out a volunteer position either paid or unpaid. This will help you in making a decision on whether TEFL is a long term career for you.
| Ethan T wrote: |
First, I would like to apologize for repeating the same scenario that is constantly proposed.
Abstract:
My name is Ethan, I am 21, a native English speaker from the USA. I have graduated high school three years ago, but never went on to college and have no TEFL. I have been looking into online TEFL certification (no $50 weekend courses - mainly focusing on Toronto University TEFL) and have no issue in obtaining TEFL certification. I understand the market is shrinking for people such as myself. I have read through the search results of similar situations (sorry for no links - I accidentally closed the pages and my browser is set to not record history), but am still wondering if there is any opportunity for me presuming I obtain a TEFL certificate. Volunteering is certainly an option, especially with organizations such as English Opens Doors. While I would prefer to be paid, I am more interested in the experience above all else. Additionally, I know more than basic Spanish and am self-teaching myself the language on a daily basis. I have been able to hold basic conversations with Mexicans before, and have improved much since my last conversation. Also, has anyone had any experience with TeachAway?
Ethan |
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jtea
Joined: 22 Apr 2014
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Where do I go? No degree or experience. |
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| Ethan T wrote: |
| Also, has anyone had any experience with TeachAway? |
TeachAway is a recruiting agency. They screen you for other companies that use TeachAway to find potential applicants. You can use their website to find jobs but you won't be working for TeachAway. I got my job at Berlitz through them. There's not much to tell about TeachAway other than I had one short interview with them and overall the lady I corresponded back and forth with was pretty nice. They're pretty efficient in terms of time but once I started corresponding with Berlitz, TeachAway didn't have much of a role. |
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Ethan T
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Where do I go? No degree or experience. |
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| lucifer911 wrote: |
Ethan I am 10 years older than you have plenty of experience in the workforce. I am currently having issues due to job security in my own job as a security professional and I really cannot control forces in the stratosphere but I can seek and gain more qualifications and skills for a new career - it is never too late. I am Australian and have completed a similar online TEFL course as the course you are mentioning, however, I have found out this is not the desired TEFL course desired by employers worldwide. You will need to find a TEFL course which typically lasts for 4 weeks and has at least 100-120 contact hours in person excluding the hours you need to study outside the class.
You have a slight advantage over me in the sense that United States is bordered to Mexico and Latin America. I do not recommend blowing your money on a CELTA course just yet. I really like the volunteer idea even if it is for a short time you will gain experience and gain a clearer direction of what you want to do in life. When I was 21 I was training to become a medical scientist at university. It was only when I got deeper in my studies I started to lose passion in the area because my profession as a scientist depended heavily on government funding and at the same time employers wanted graduates to hold masters, PHDs, and honours degree as the minimum qualification. Outside of my university studies I was working as a gymnast teacher in a very nice private school for children ranging from 5 years old to 11 years old. I did this job for 3 years and I really enjoyed the challenge of teaching and I know this is the right career path for me. I have arranged to go back and finish a university degree because it fulfills the VISA requirement and shows the employer you take your profession seriously enough to get the qualification.
So because you are still young I highly recommend the volunteer idea even if it is for a very short time with or without pay. I would hold off on an expensive TEFL qualification and opt for a college degree first. You do not have be a TEFL teacher if you love travelling. Tourism and flight attendant jobs are great jobs to undertake while studying at college or determining where you want to go in life. At the age of 21 you are quite capable of changing career directions several times in the future. I know plenty of university graduates who finish their degrees and disliked their studies and opted to work in a job completely unrelated. When you get back to United States seek out a volunteer position either paid or unpaid. This will help you in making a decision on whether TEFL is a long term career for you.
| Ethan T wrote: |
First, I would like to apologize for repeating the same scenario that is constantly proposed.
Abstract:
My name is Ethan, I am 21, a native English speaker from the USA. I have graduated high school three years ago, but never went on to college and have no TEFL. I have been looking into online TEFL certification (no $50 weekend courses - mainly focusing on Toronto University TEFL) and have no issue in obtaining TEFL certification. I understand the market is shrinking for people such as myself. I have read through the search results of similar situations (sorry for no links - I accidentally closed the pages and my browser is set to not record history), but am still wondering if there is any opportunity for me presuming I obtain a TEFL certificate. Volunteering is certainly an option, especially with organizations such as English Opens Doors. While I would prefer to be paid, I am more interested in the experience above all else. Additionally, I know more than basic Spanish and am self-teaching myself the language on a daily basis. I have been able to hold basic conversations with Mexicans before, and have improved much since my last conversation. Also, has anyone had any experience with TeachAway?
Ethan |
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Thank you for that. The world itself seems to be moving to the age of college degrees as a basis for simply entering a job. It is made clear to me now that if I want to do TEFL as a long-term career I will have to have a degree of sorts, just like everything else.
Also nomad soul, thank you for the link. I do not bother trying to debate the point, it is futile. I simply mention it because it is a factor. It is just the way things are. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Where do I go? No degree or experience. |
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| Ethan T wrote: |
| Thank you for that. The world itself seems to be moving to the age of college degrees as a basis for simply entering a job. It is made clear to me now that if I want to do TEFL as a long-term career I will have to have a degree of sorts, just like everything else. |
Education OR training OR join the rest of the low paid factory workers in Mexico, China and the rest of the 3rd world (where there are lots of them willing to take the work).
Well paid jobs for unskilled, untrained labor have gone the way of the Dodo bird.
There are 6 billion unskilled and untrained workers out there (just like you) for you to compete against and they are more than willing to work for much less than you will.
If you want to be a teacher then a degree is the entry level requirement.
If you want to work in management (or other higher level white collar jobs) then a degree is the entry level requirement.
If going back to college/uni isn't an option for you then trades training is a (well paid) and viable option for work (globally).
IF you like working with your hands then the trades are an option.
There will always be a demand for a good plumber, carpenter, mason, appliance repair guy, pipe-fitter, equipment operator etc. AND they usually pay pretty well too (often better than many white collar, college degree type jobs).
Decide what YOU want to do then make the path (degree, training, etc) to get there. You can't fight the requirements for a job (you'll never get hired) but you can find a way to success.
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Ethan T wrote: |
| The world itself seems to be moving to the age of college degrees as a basis for simply entering a job. It is made clear to me now that if I want to do TEFL as a long-term career I will have to have a degree of sorts, just like everything else. |
Consider that your parents' generation and beyond didn't need a degree for many jobs (usually unskilled labor, blue-collar positions) or that formal education wasn't attainable. For example, I'm probably about your parents' age and was the first in my family to get a university degree; it was a big deal back then. Throughout the years, in the US, getting that education became easier (albeit, more expensive) as universities started to accommodate students' work schedules with night and sometimes weekend classes. Distance learning (via mail) was popular and allowed those who couldn't physically attend a college campus to still earn course credits toward a certificate or associate's degree. That led to some universities expanding by opening satellite campuses in the US and overseas as well. Case in point, my university has campuses on or near military bases in the US to accommodate military personnel and civil servants.
Although the US military had already been using computers for training purposes, it wasn't until about 10 years ago that the general public would have the opportunity to experience some form of e-learning as more households acquired personal computers. Workers were also expected to be familiar with technology---many learned how to use basic applications while on the job years before eventually using those same skills and knowledge at home on a PC for learning or just surfing the Net.
Additionally, for government and corporate workers, employer-provided tuition reimbursement continues to make it even more possible to complete a degree, which is how I was able to fund two master's degrees without incurring student loan debt. But really, if we look at the current options for learning, the only stumbling block for many is how to cover tuition and perhaps a negative perception of a bachelor's degree as a necessary investment.
A few points...
- In the US, the overall high school dropout rate has steadily decreased over the past few decades. As the number of people getting bachelor's degrees has increased, a BA has become more commonplace and is now equivalent to what a high school diploma was a generation ago. That is, a BA has replaced the HS diploma as the bare minimum requirement for many jobs and is what employers expect job applicants to possess. That leaves the HS diploma as the basic credential needed to get into a college/university program since it's not impressing many employers on its own.
- To an employer, a university degree is confirmation of completion of formal education past one's k-12 education (i.e., proof of learning into early adulthood). It not only provides knowledge relevant to a specific field (i.e., degree major), but if you think about it, getting a degree entails using time management skills to hit assignment due dates, teamwork on projects, project management, applying problem-solving skills, academic research using various resources, producing well-written reports and essays, and so on. These are skills that can be applied to any occupation and work environment, which is why a BA is valued by many employers. It's also what makes a BA holder marketable worldwide over someone who lacks a degree.
- In terms of a degree being required for TEFL jobs, keep in mind that some parts of the world are where the US and other developed countries were decades ago. In other words, the percentage of BA degree holders in developing countries is generally low relative to their population size. There may be cultural, socio-political, physical, resource, and economic barriers to getting a degree. Those who do complete university studies are likely to come from a middle or upper class family. By contrast, less-fortunate families scrape by for years to put their child(ren) through school; having even one child with an education is an investment---an opportunity to pull an entire family out of poverty. My point is, we need to expand our worldview of what a formal education/degree is rather than looking at it solely from a western, cultural perspective. What we may deem to be of little value and unnecessary may be quite the goldmine elsewhere in the world, and thus, coveted. To that employer and the students we teach, it's a given that citizens of developed, richer countries with more opportunities and resources would have a degree. Also, from many overseas employers' standpoint, in order to educate others, every teacher---national and expat---is required to have a degree, regardless of the subject taught.
Time to start thinking about that humble BA in a different light. |
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Ethan T
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Ethan T wrote: |
| The world itself seems to be moving to the age of college degrees as a basis for simply entering a job. It is made clear to me now that if I want to do TEFL as a long-term career I will have to have a degree of sorts, just like everything else. |
Consider that your parents' generation and beyond didn't need a degree for many jobs (usually unskilled labor, blue-collar positions) or that formal education wasn't attainable. For example, I'm probably about your parents' age and was the first in my family to get a university degree; it was a big deal back then. Throughout the years, in the US, getting that education became easier (albeit, more expensive) as universities started to accommodate students' work schedules with night and sometimes weekend classes. Distance learning (via mail) was popular and allowed those who couldn't physically attend a college campus to still earn course credits toward a certificate or associate's degree. That led to some universities expanding by opening satellite campuses in the US and overseas as well. Case in point, my university has campuses on or near military bases in the US to accommodate military personnel and civil servants.
Although the US military had already been using computers for training purposes, it wasn't until about 10 years ago that the general public would have the opportunity to experience some form of e-learning as more households acquired personal computers. Workers were also expected to be familiar with technology---many learned how to use basic applications while on the job years before eventually using those same skills and knowledge at home on a PC for learning or just surfing the Net.
Additionally, for government and corporate workers, employer-provided tuition reimbursement continues to make it even more possible to complete a degree, which is how I was able to fund two master's degrees without incurring student loan debt. But really, if we look at the current options for learning, the only stumbling block for many is how to cover tuition and perhaps a negative perception of a bachelor's degree as a necessary investment.
A few points...
- In the US, the overall high school dropout rate has steadily decreased over the past few decades. As the number of people getting bachelor's degrees has increased, a BA has become more commonplace and is now equivalent to what a high school diploma was a generation ago. That is, a BA has replaced the HS diploma as the bare minimum requirement for many jobs and is what employers expect job applicants to possess. That leaves the HS diploma as the basic credential needed to get into a college/university program since it's not impressing many employers on its own.
- To an employer, a university degree is confirmation of completion of formal education past one's k-12 education (i.e., proof of learning into early adulthood). It not only provides knowledge relevant to a specific field (i.e., degree major), but if you think about it, getting a degree entails using time management skills to hit assignment due dates, teamwork on projects, project management, applying problem-solving skills, academic research using various resources, producing well-written reports and essays, and so on. These are skills that can be applied to any occupation and work environment, which is why a BA is valued by many employers. It's also what makes a BA holder marketable worldwide over someone who lacks a degree.
- In terms of a degree being required for TEFL jobs, keep in mind that some parts of the world are where the US and other developed countries were decades ago. In other words, the percentage of BA degree holders in developing countries is generally low relative to their population size. There may be cultural, socio-political, physical, resource, and economic barriers to getting a degree. Those who do complete university studies are likely to come from a middle or upper class family. By contrast, less-fortunate families scrape by for years to put their child(ren) through school; having even one child with an education is an investment---an opportunity to pull an entire family out of poverty. My point is, we need to expand our worldview of what a formal education/degree is rather than looking at it from a personal, western perspective. What we may deem to be of little value and unnecessary may be quite the goldmine elsewhere in the world, and thus, coveted. To that employer and the students we teach, it's a given that citizens of developed, richer countries with more opportunities and resources would have a degree. Also, from many overseas employers' standpoint, in order to educate others, every teacher---national and expat---is required to have a degree, regardless of the subject taught.
Time to start thinking about that humble BA in a different light. |
I love history and have read quite a bit about the advancement of colleges in the United States. One bit that has really irritated me is how the high schools have done away with many workshops due to colleges becoming more popular. While seeing the BA as essentially another form of HS diploma, I never quite viewed it in the perspective of a less developed nation. I can definitely see where you are coming from - the market value of a BA is essentially becoming naught in the USA due to it becoming more universal, but can be a huge deal overseas. I may have to consider finding a way to get a BA then, or go to trade school as suphanburi has mentioned
I really am thankful for all the advice I have been given so far, it has been a great help. Even if I may not have mentioned or replied to you, I am thankful to everyone who has posted. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Ethan T wrote: |
| I may have to consider finding a way to get a BA then, or go to trade school as suphanburi has mentioned |
Just as a side note.... trade school isn't the only option.. many trades are still learned "on the job" as apprentices.
Rather than take on student debt they actually get paid while they learn their craft.
You didn't mention what state you were from but as an example:
https://dwd.wisconsin.gov/apprenticeship/
It might be something to look into.
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Ethan T
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 10
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| suphanburi wrote: |
| Ethan T wrote: |
| I may have to consider finding a way to get a BA then, or go to trade school as suphanburi has mentioned |
Just as a side note.... trade school isn't the only option.. many trades are still learned "on the job" as apprentices.
Rather than take on student debt they actually get paid while they learn their craft.
You didn't mention what state you were from but as an example:
https://dwd.wisconsin.gov/apprenticeship/
It might be something to look into.
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I am currently living in New Zealand, far, far away from the States. If I have to go back I will be going to Washington state. I may investigate for something around here. |
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LaLaDivina
Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Colombia
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