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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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 Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
| Interesting that almost all responses have focused on hours, pay and spare time activities. |
That's all some people care about, and it's a recurring theme in the ESL world.
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
| There is also a professional teaching task to be done. |
I have no doubt there are some teachers who carry out their job in a professional manner, but there are a significant number of slugs out there who don't. When I first became involved in ESL, back in 2000, I learned very quickly that this industry was largely based on the concept of "teach and travel" with heavy emphasis on the travel and having fun part. A lot of people seem to forget, or don't care, that they actually need to put something in while taking something out. Just putting a warm body in front of a class ain't gonna cut it. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Interesting that almost all responses have focused on hours, pay and spare time activities.
There is also a professional teaching task to be done. |
Interesting that that is what was basically asked in the OP.
Either way, this is a job, just like anything else. You find a way to be good at it or you don't. I'm not pretending to save the world like some people that make me nauseous. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Asking about living comfortably is certainly a more important question than the details of the job...any job.
Hmm...I'm going to apply to McDonald's, but before wondering if it's enough money to live off of, let me be a complete buffoon and ask people how they flip the hamburgers first. Who cares if I have to live like a homeless person because I will be feeding people and saving the world in no time! |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Interesting that almost all responses have focused on hours, pay and spare time activities.
There is also a professional teaching task to be done. |
This is a nice idea and in 'normal' circumstances it would be equally as valid as those other questions, but in China there is usually no or poor communication between management and teachers and as a result coordination is often non existent too. Add to those systemic problems such as no standardised curriculum to follow in order to be an effective professional teacher and you have a teaching environment that is desperately demoralising.
As a teacher not having any meaningful support or constructive feedback might be motivation enough for some people to thrive (as is often expressed here) but for me, I always preferred being connected systemically to some degree with the institution I was actually working for.
As this is often the environment to be contended with in China, is it any wonder a lot of people give up on trying to be professional and just do the minimum required effort instead and have a good time anyway. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
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People say that there is a professional teaching job to be done when we all know that 4,500 is a rip off and somewhere along the line a Chinese will be ripping that cash straight into his bank account.
Hey, 500 euros a huge amount of money every month, you're lucky the local Chinese only make 2,000 RMB a month, you're getting DOUBLE their pay!
Joking aside, you can't pay someone peanuts and not expect a monkey, although Chinese love white monkeys to teach so it's all fair. |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Interesting that almost all responses have focused on hours, pay and spare time activities.
There is also a professional teaching task to be done. |
This is a nice idea and in 'normal' circumstances it would be equally as valid as those other questions, but in China there is usually no or poor communication between management and teachers and as a result coordination is often non existent too. Add to those systemic problems such as no standardised curriculum to follow in order to be an effective professional teacher and you have a teaching environment that is desperately demoralising.
As a teacher not having any meaningful support or constructive feedback might be motivation enough for some people to thrive (as is often expressed here) but for me, I always preferred being connected systemically to some degree with the institution I was actually working for.
As this is often the environment to be contended with in China, is it any wonder a lot of people give up on trying to be professional and just do the minimum required effort instead and have a good time anyway. |
I agree (a bit). So the school doesn't give a shit and provides no support, doesn't mean we have to follow suit. The only people that really lose are the students, the ones actually paying for a teacher's services.
Back on topic, any teacher should arrive at a job with a folder of ready to go lesson plans. They might not fit every scenario but should be easy enough to adapt to whatever situation a teacher finds themselves in. This doesn't even have to involve real work, you can download tons of this stuff for free off the net. Even someone with no college degree and no experience can do this much. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Larry Legend wrote: |
Asking about living comfortably is certainly a more important question than the details of the job...any job.
Hmm...I'm going to apply to McDonald's, but before wondering if it's enough money to live off of, let me be a complete buffoon and ask people how they flip the hamburgers first. Who cares if I have to live like a homeless person because I will be feeding people and saving the world in no time! |
Until I came to China, the worst teachers I'd ever met were in the U.S.. They were primarily interested in pay, perks, and time off. They didn't give a flip about their own job performance, or how their work actually had an effect upon their students. A Messianic complex isn't a requirement in order to be an effective teacher.
Since you made the comparison, let me leave you with this thought. If you don't give a flip at McDonald's, what do you think will happen?
Larry, I hope that we never work in the same school. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Until I came to China, the worst teachers I'd ever met were in the U.S.. They were primarily interested in pay, perks, and time off. They didn't give a flip about their own job performance, or how their work actually had an effect upon their students. A Messianic complex isn't a requirement in order to be an effective teacher.
Since you made the comparison, let me leave you with this thought. If you don't give a flip at McDonald's, what do you think will happen?
Larry, I hope that we never work in the same school. |
Feelings are mutual. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't need to breathe, live, and eat "Teacher", in order to be effective, nor have I yet to meet a teacher at one of my schools that engages the students quite as well as I do. Either way that has nothing to do with the original post or any responses to it. He asked valid questions and was given valid answers.
The essences and expectations of teaching are the same everywhere. Of course I'm going to worry about pay, perks and time off vs. another job or what-have-you. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Tips & insight? First time teaching ESL |
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| offwego wrote: |
Hi guys,
I've received a contract to teach English in China in August. I got into the program through my community college so it's legit. Without getting into too much detail, The apartment is paid for, and I get 4500 RMB/month on top of that. I have no previous teaching experience, been to college for a couple years without finishing a degree, and am 24 years old. Anyway, is this enough for living comfortably you think? it seems totally fine to me, but what would I know. This is just a temporary gig for 6 months.
Also, are there things I should watch out for, or certain stuff to bring? Is it worth trying to learn Mandarin if there are so many dialects? What were your first teaching jobs like here? I'll be browsing the forums a lot for other answers. Thanks for any help. |
My reading of the OP is that he/she sought advice on both pay and the teaching task.
The early responses emphasised the pay perks and time off aspects, hence my observation. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Since you made the comparison, let me leave you with this thought. If you don't give a flip at McDonald's, what do you think will happen?
Larry, I hope that we never work in the same school. |
You must not go to the same McDonald's I go to because clearly, over 50 percent of them don't give a "flip". We'd all get what we ordered, made neatly and correctly and served quickly every time and you wouldn't have to wait for french fries to cook even though every damn customer gets french fries at McDonald's....if they gave a "flip". But they don't and they ain't getting fired either as long as they show up.
Either way...who cares? What happens when you DO OR DON'T give a "flip" at McDonald's but can't live off the salary? Answer: you go on welfare and start selling drugs. |
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offwego
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 4
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
People say that there is a professional teaching job to be done when we all know that 4,500 is a rip off and somewhere along the line a Chinese will be ripping that cash straight into his bank account.
Hey, 500 euros a huge amount of money every month, you're lucky the local Chinese only make 2,000 RMB a month, you're getting DOUBLE their pay!
Joking aside, you can't pay someone peanuts and not expect a monkey, although Chinese love white monkeys to teach so it's all fair. |
except i'm not white. thanks for the delightful input. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Some people here like to think they are either saving the world, or that this job requires the same level of seriousness and focus as the Secret Service- personally, I couldn't stand those type of teachers in High School so I am naturally, not one of them.
I'm not sure what your plans are but I'm curious why you are doing this placement thing rather than just seeing what's out there? You could theoretically pick your city or at least choose out of a group of options, double your salary that'd you make at the other place, and work 20 hours a week (no office hours) at a pretty easy job at DD Dragon. You'll have plenty of off-time to decide if you like teaching/China and want to pursue this career further. I was friends with a black guy at my first job with that company, so they don't discriminate 100 percent of the time ... |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry Legend wrote: |
| Some people here like to think they are either saving the world, or that this job requires the same level of seriousness and focus as the Secret Service- personally, I couldn't stand those type of teachers in High School so I am naturally, not one of them. |
It seems rather sad to me that your posts imply that people that give a damn about their jobs and the people they teach have to be 'saving the world', and that the only other option is to not give a damn and focus on the benefits. All because of limited and narrow view of the world you gained in high school. Did it never occur to you that there may be people who can both do a good job and care, and also think about the benefits?
Also, you might want to consider that people who give a damn and want to contribute to the world instead of just sucking it dry are not a 'type' either, of teacher or of person. Labelling people as a type just to fit them into your narrow world view just comes across as bitter and insecure to me. But hey, I'm probably one of those 'types' you can't stand, so what does it matter? |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| doogsville wrote: |
| Larry Legend wrote: |
| Some people here like to think they are either saving the world, or that this job requires the same level of seriousness and focus as the Secret Service- personally, I couldn't stand those type of teachers in High School so I am naturally, not one of them. |
It seems rather sad to me that your posts imply that people that give a damn about their jobs and the people they teach have to be 'saving the world', and that the only other option is to not give a damn and focus on the benefits. All because of limited and narrow view of the world you gained in high school. Did it never occur to you that there may be people who can both do a good job and care, and also think about the benefits?
Also, you might want to consider that people who give a damn and want to contribute to the world instead of just sucking it dry are not a 'type' either, of teacher or of person. Labelling people as a type just to fit them into your narrow world view just comes across as bitter and insecure to me. But hey, I'm probably one of those 'types' you can't stand, so what does it matter? |
Funny...people like me move up in the world...people like you stay still......nothing wrong with that...but I'm above this. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Funny...people like me move up in the world...people like you stay still......nothing wrong with that...but I'm above this.
And you're flyin' high in China and advancing in the world? I don't get it. There's something quite disingenuous about your message. |
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