Job Discussion Forums

Guerciotti · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject:

First I went to the bank, then I went to the police. Ultimately the bank personnel agreed I'm about to get stiffed and it takes, at most, two days to fix a bank error. I had another emergency to fix and the directions to the police office were less than perfect so I arrived at the police station around 4pm.

I love to call a spade a spade but the police were very professional. After I practiced my Chinese listening comprehension while waiting (my listening comprehension is goshawful) I met with an officer who listened, read everything - contract, emails, weixin messages, bank records - and said it is too late today, we will call you tomorrow. They have the school's phone number. They made copies of everything and drove me home.

Tomorrow will be interesting. Well, OK, it will be interesting for me.

Shroob · Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 1339

Guerciotti · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject:

Listerine · Joined: 15 Jun 2014 Posts: 340

Good for you for having the stones to fight for what you're entitled to rather than just sitting back, grumbling and taking it in the ass. Too many cases of FTs just accepting getting screwed and sometimes kind of reinforces in the FAO's (or whoever is up to shenanigans') mind that we're an easy mark. Good luck tomorrow.

Guerciotti · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject:

Thanks Listerine. I don't know what will happen, but it is much better to fight. I have nothing to lose, unless they kick me out of the apartment!

bestteacher2012 · Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 160

Is your school a public or private school?

Riff Raff · Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Posts: 85

Guerciotti - you did the right thing. What I would suggest:

The name of the person who has lied is at fault.

EDIT: Wait, I re-read your first post. You say "they." Who is "they?" END EDIT.

Talk with someone else in power at the school. The City FAO is a great idea. Explain that X employee(s) in X office has breached contract. Explain the proof you have and whom you've talked with. Be polite. Basically, make them aware that a specific employee is causing problems. Make it clear that the school has been very kind. It is just this one person or office, but, unfortunately, that person's thievery results in the school being named. Unless, of course, the bad apple is addressed by the powers that be at the school. Seek some resolution internally. Document it. Always stay polite.

Part of legal strategy in China, utilized by Chinese attorneys representing foreigners, is to draw in as many outside but qualified people as possible. People talking will get the issue noticed. The school will act to save face. And the more relevant people involved, the less likely the thieves can use your money buy off whomever you speak with. So, if the FAO or school boss cannot help, get a local lawyer to do it for you. At some point, an honorable person will help you. The bubble of corruption inside that office does not reflect all of China.

Stay ultra polite. If it were to go to trial, due to the school officials doing nothing, then also legally seek court costs. Most of all, legally seek a formal apology from the school as part of the settlement, preferably made officially and in public. If the school or someone helps get your money without going to court, politely say that a formal apology should be written, signed, and cropped by "they." Be very polite when making that known. In itself, it digs deep into traditional culture of China. The good people of China take it seriously. The bad ones laugh it off. "Honor is for the poor."

Piper2 · Joined: 13 Jun 2014 Posts: 146

Guerciotti · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:38 am Post subject:

best: It's a private school - with a small international high school.

riff raff - 'they' = the director, one person. I have no access to others with power.

I cannot find the city FAO. This police department was recommended by another FT.

I did blame the person, not the school. I told the policeman it is a good school.

In my opinion, it is extraodinarily unlikely that this will go to trial. JMHO

I am always polite, but it can't hurt to be reminded.

I'm not interested in a formal, chopped apology. I think that would be impossible to attain, or if it were possible, would waste valuable time and effort for what? A chopped apology? To put on my ego wall? Personally, I'm not the least bit interested.

Technically this is not a settlement. I want what I earned by agreement.

Piper - My new school knows me well. I have visited them on my own dime. They know about this. They have everything they need from the old (this) school. I may be wrong but I am convinced they won't pay me, thus I say I have nothing to lose. Ask a few Chinese people about employers cheating a departing employee out of pay and you may find this is not uncommon. I had a few good laughs with the bank personnel. They know what is happening.

However I agree with you in general; the old school could cause serious trouble. We agree on that.

Yes I wrote 'PSB', but went to a police office. I cannot find the city FAO or other related offices. The folks at the intake PSB don't speak English and apparently don't handle these matters. I visited a certain police office on the recommendation of another FT.

Yesterday was a 'just do it' day. I did something, now I'll wait for a call.
Maybe visiting the police was a mistake, but if I contact the school (they - the director, my only contact with any authority) they will simply put me off again. I need someone else to call them.

Waiting ...

Piper2 · Joined: 13 Jun 2014 Posts: 146

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

You're an inspiration mate!
This should be a 'sticky'.
Best
NS

Riff Raff · Joined: 09 Jun 2014 Posts: 85

The apology is very traditional. To some, that is a very big deal indeed, perhaps more than money. To thieves, it's not. The crop was to make it official. By your asking for that, Chinese know the culprit has committed a grave injustice that has much cultural depth.

In Westerm culture, it's polite but not valued as much. Saying that you want a formally written apology from the person (in addition to the money) is of huge cultural pride to many. You probably will not get that. The thief already doesn't respect you, and it would be a humiliation of sorts to humble himself, especially in such a deep tradition. You'd get your money but not the apology... unless he were pressured by school or police. We're not talking confession. You're talking about keeping your face. Make it known you want a formal, written apology. Don't be pushy. Just make it known to the person and all the people you must talk with to get your money. That request in itself, coming from a foreigner, brings shame to the person in the eyes of society. You just want your money. Got it. The apology is 5,000 year old school China diplomacy that people respect... as opposed to, oh, giving him a green hat. By requesting the formal apology, in my opinion, the money, which you'll get, becomes far less important in day to day life. The apology shows you know and respect traditional China culture on a deeper level.

Shroob · Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 1339

My only concern is the timing. How long is it until you have to leave the area? Will it be possible to have things completed by then?

Guerciotti · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:02 am Post subject:

Piper2 and Non Sequitur - thanks!
Riff Raff - the apology - yes the chop makes it official. Interesting history. I am aware of 'face'. Unfortunately I am simple and narrow-minded, thus I only want my money. I couldn't care less about pride.
Schroob - I have two weeks. I don't know.

thechangling · Joined: 11 Apr 2013 Posts: 276

Great thread. Hope you get your money! Please name and shame when the time is right!