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| How many jobs/recruiters did you apply for |
| 1-10 |
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41% |
[ 5 ] |
| 11-20 |
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33% |
[ 4 ] |
| 21-40 |
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25% |
[ 3 ] |
| More than 40 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 12 |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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 Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
A agree with Listerine.
The ad fee whether on Dave's or other is minuscule compared to the fee received for placing a teacher with an employer.
The really opaque issue is whether the FAO or the recruiter, or them combined, skim the money budgeted for FT salaries.
In other words do schools budget RMB6500 per month for the average bog standard FT but only RMB5500 reaches the poor sap at the chalkface. |
The recruiters that I've known who recruited for universities received the equivalent of one month's FT's salary. BA= 5,000 rmb; MA/MS= 5,500+; Ph.D= 7,800 rmb. It's a competitive business, so I can't see a university shelling out a portion larger than that to any recruiter. At every university where I've taught, the FAO has given the FTs an equal shot at the recruiting. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Bud.
What's your take on whether the FAO skim the FT salary budget? |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Thanks Bud.
What's your take on whether the FAO skim the FT salary budget? |
Non Sequitur, better questions might be: how can you really know? Who would you ask to confirm? Why would they tell anyone? How much does a school really budget for a FT? Is that all inclusive (bonuses, apartment, apartment repairs, health check, visa and RP, salary, any other expenses)?
I've seen it posted on here before that universities supposedly budget 100,000 per year for each FT but I'd like to know where that figure came from. I suspect it was just another bogus number someone threw out there so as to look knowledgeable. But if it is 100,000 then, with all the expenses of hiring a FT, it sounds reasonable and I can see it all being used up.
With a contract between a recruiter and a teacher, with the school as a third party and the recruiter accountable to no-one, it's possible the recruiter can/is skimming some salary. For other jobs, where the recruiter is just paid a one time fee, or where the contract is directly between the school and teacher, I'd say this is far less likely. But who knows? I've never given it much thought to be honest as I'm paid fairly well and have no problems with my employer.
| talentedcrayon wrote: |
| To land a decent job in China how many resumes do you usually send out? |
I send about 10 emails to places in the area where I want to work and live. Out of 10 a few won't get replies, a few will get replies but offer conditions I'm not happy with, and the rest will offer me what I'm looking for. I narrow it down further by emailing again asking some questions about the school and so on. The one that answers all my questions in a way that I'm satisfied with is probably the one I'm going to go with. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:16 am Post subject: |
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'Non Sequitur, better questions might be: how can you really know?'
I asked for a 'take' not a definitive answer.
I agree no-one can know for sure and in my experience, over 3 state tertiaries, there is no skimming by FAOs.
The budget of 100,000 per FT sounds reasonable in that many are paid for 10 months only. |
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Listerine
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 340
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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I had a co-worker who had been dating his former FAO. He claimed that she claimed the monthly budget per FT at their school was 10,000rmb. 5,500 would go to direct pays, 1,000ish for flights, 1,000 or so would go toward things like electric, internet, insurance, bureaucratic fees etc. I'm sure other expenses would eat up several hundred also.
A bit too Chinese whisper-ish to be guaranteed accurate, but if the 10,000 per month figure is right, it doesn't seem there'd be a massive amount to skim off the top by the time all expenses are covered - Guessing though.
Last edited by Listerine on Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Listerine
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 340
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Interestingly the co-teacher did claim also that the FAO confided in him that there were several additional FTs on the payroll who didn't actually work there. Again unsure about how accurate this is, but I'd be 99.99% certain the average FAO has worked out some naughty ways to supplement their relatively meager salary in order to afford that Audi. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Listerine wrote: |
| Interestingly the co-teacher did claim also that the FAO confided in him that there were several additional FTs on the payroll who didn't actually work there. Again unsure about how accurate this is, but I'd be 99.99% certain the average FAO has worked out some naughty ways to supplement their relatively meager salary in order to afford that Audi. |
I've come across this 'phantom teacher' phenomenon. It happened because my school used its status as a school entitled to hire foreigners, to also obtain teachers for a private language school that didn't have that ability.
We would get very short notice and short term teachers on campus and only later realised they normally worked at the private school.
The language school owner also acted as a recruitment agent. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Thanks Bud.
What's your take on whether the FAO skim the FT salary budget? |
I know that at Chinese public universities and colleges, the FAO has a discretionary budget that allows FTs to be paid higher than what is supposedly dictated as standard for that area if the school is desperate. The contract and the accounting would have to be fudged, something I don't think would be easy. I'm not an accountant, so i can't really say.
I am unsure if there's any way to determine if there's actual skimming occurring at any public university. I do know that the province does require the FAO to be accountable for every fen. I've always had to sign for my salary and count it in front of the FAO/ bursar. I do know that auditing is a more common practice lately.
If one signs a bona fide SAFEA contract, that contract is registered with the SAFEA (pfffft) and with the Ministry of Education. That's one form of accountability.
Where the cheating is likely to occur is in the discretionary funds for new furniture and equipment. It's even more likely when the province loosens the purse strings for a city's entire school system. I don't want to make any accusations, but at one school, when the administration buildings at the surrounding colleges and universities in my city got new furniture, it all looked the same: heavy, substantial, attractive leather couches and chairs. The city FAO's office had it, the PSB office had it (in the employee area) and --- wait for it--- and in ALMOST every Chinese teacher's home I visited. Same manufacturer. Same design. Same color. I'm not inclined to believe that the province intentionally provided those teachers with that furniture. It's possible, but not probable.
At the same school at Christmas time, smoked ducks were given out to the Chinese faculty. I saw some teachers and administrators cram their cars with the bright red plastic bags as they prepared to leave campus.
Did the FTs get a smoked duck? Nope. (Which end would you light anyway?). |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Listerine wrote: |
| Interestingly the co-teacher did claim also that the FAO confided in him that there were several additional FTs on the payroll who didn't actually work there. Again unsure about how accurate this is, but I'd be 99.99% certain the average FAO has worked out some naughty ways to supplement their relatively meager salary in order to afford that Audi. |
At one time, it was done openly. I don't know how common it is now, though, unless the FAO has the authority to do so. It seems that the senior party members are the ones who are most likely to bend the rules. |
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