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tvik
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: here
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 Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Saudi is a place where I can see myself spending a few years saving money sporadically over the next 25 years before I hit 65. I don't care if it's a "good" university, since it's mostly about the money here and anyhow KFUMP offered a job a few years ago with only my BA so isn't that a "good" place? I'm currently at the very upper end of the pay spectrum as well. Anyhow, I've worked in completely dysfunctional universities that provided for greater freedom and a higher salary and had much nicer students largely because the management was too busy with keeping the lights on to bother you with re-active policies and endless paperwork.
I don't want to sound too combative however, and do appreciate the input. Part of the Saudi experience is having the time to complete an MA and people here are better off doing that in the evening than counting the amount of brain cells per glass of paint thinner that explode, continuing the endless conversation with colleagues about how crap things are or watching Star Trek 6 for the 99th time.
Still, I understand, you wouldn't want to put 1000's of your local currency and hundreds of your diminishing life's hours into something that is essentially decorative, even though it may honestly be very rewarding intellectually and will likely increase your confidence in the classroom. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| coder wrote: |
| Again, speaking from a KSA perspective - no matter how rinky dink a western university might be, in the eyes of a KSA employer the fact that the MA is from a "Western" uni means it beats any "Eastern" uni, including AUC or AUB or AUanywhere. Get your degree in the "West".....that's just the way the world is. |
Do some research. The American Universities in Cairo, Beirut, Sharjah, Armenia, Paris, Rome, etc.---those that hold valid, US higher ed accreditation---are not "Eastern" universities. Besides, what does that say about Carnegie Mellon, Texas A&M, Virginia Commonwealth, Cornell Med College, NY University, and others that have an established presence in the Mid East? Plus, by your reasoning, dependents educated abroad in DoDEA (and even Aramco) schools miss out on a "quality Western" education as well. That includes me since my entire elementary and nearly all of my secondary education was outside the US. |
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coder
Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 94
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by coder on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coder
Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 94
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by coder on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| tvik wrote: |
| Saudi is a place where I can see myself spending a few years saving money sporadically over the next 25 years before I hit 65. . |
You're going to teach in the KSA until your 65? What happens if you get banned or have to leave before reaching anywhere near that age?
Last edited by plumpy nut on Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CANDLES
Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 605
Location: Wandering aimlessly.....
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Why not till 65 or less/more? It's actually not a 'bad' place to work in; everything gets taken care of and the money grows in the bank. What else do you want out of life?  |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| coder wrote: |
It's funny how we hear only what we want to hear and read only what we want to read. I totally agree with you, but I said ( "Again, speaking from a KSA perspective......."....in the eyes of a KSA employer.....") In other words, I'm looking at the issue from a KSA employer's viewpoint, not mine.
Wasn't it clear that that's what I was saying? I don't see how anyone could intepret what I said differently - especially as the complete opposite of what I said. If you know KSA at all, you know very well that a Saudi employer, especially an academic employer, will favor a USA/UK degree over the degree of any other country, certainly any other Arab country, regardless of the true merits of the institutions. |
No, I read it correctly; it's your assumption that's wrong. There is no "issue."
I personally know four teachers who work as direct hires in several Saudi universities: three are MA TEFL alumni of the American University in Cairo, the other holds an MA in TESOL from AU-Sharjah. The idea that their US-accredited university degrees are perceived as being lesser-quality academic credentials from supposed "Eastern" universities is obviously yours, based on your claim to knowing what's behind the "eyes of a KSA employer." In terms of the standards employers are looking for, valid western accreditation easily trumps a university's physical location. Moreover, the better Saudi employers are likely to be quite familiar with these universities and their reputations; AU-Cairo, in particular, has been around for nearly a century. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| KFUPM is a cushy billet. Just the place to spend your declining years. Dunno about KFUMP. Is that better ? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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tvik... As Nomad said, the degree from AUC is US accredited, and well accepted in the Gulf and beyond. (actually over the years a number of well-known ESL people received their MA there and/or taught there) I found it a very enjoyable way to get a degree because it is a small department and you can develop relationships with the professors and your fellow students. It opened many doors for me around the Middle East.
If you will be in Cairo for Eid, you could take the trek out to the fancy new campus and see it, but there won't be anyone around to be able to discuss the program since everyone will be on break like you. It is a very different world from Gulf education.  A campus full of uncovered women in your mixed classes...
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| There are all kinds of places that offer a 1 year MA in TESL (or related).... these are all in Britain. If you're American, I'm sure you can find similar 1 year programs in the USA: |
I doubt it. One year MAs very likely don't even exist in the US. The system is quite different from the UK. Significant coursework is always required and it is very difficult, probably impossible, to fit them all into a year.
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| Is doing an MA TESOL at the age of 59/60 beneficial? I know someone who's thinking about it and not sure how to respond to it. |
I would say it depends. Are they just doing it for their personal interest and money is no object? Then it is personally beneficial and it may open more and better job opportunities. But if they are paying significant money for it - as one would in the US - one's professional life won't last long enough to even break even on the costs. For the usual jump in pay, one would have to work another 10+ years to get the costs back.
VS
And BTW Scot...
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| While in Cairo, learn to speak Arabic with an Egyptian accent and you can guarantee that no one in the Arab World will ever take you seriously. |
My students LOVED it when I used Egyptian Arabic with them. They would respond in kind as they all know it from TV, and it was useful for entertainment purposes. The prejudice is against Egyptians... not specifically their dialect. So, its coming from the mouth of their Western teacher is a great ice-breaker. It was also useful when traveling as everyone understands it. |
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coder
Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 94
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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delete
Last edited by coder on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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There is, of course, the issue that you may not be terribly familiar with the US educational system and a quick google skips out on much of how things actually work in real life. With luck one may be able to do it in 3 semesters - and $20-30K in education loans - but most will be working at the same time and it will end up being as it is for the vast majority - 4 semesters (since summer only allows a few credits to be taken). Most will likely work the summer to save some cash and do it in 4 regular semesters - otherwise known as 2 years. Fellowships normally require 2 full years plus a summer session.
Actually many of those Saudi academics that you refer to probably got their degrees at an AU-something.... because they know that they are better.
VS |
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coder
Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 94
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:02 am Post subject: |
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delete
Last edited by coder on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| coder wrote: |
No Saudi academic will ever admit that universities like AUC or AUB or AU-anywhere are superior to what exists in KSA. After all, they don't have to.....As we all know, a recent "rankings" put KSA universities such as KFUPM "ahead of the Sorbonne" or equated them with USC and other such fantasies.
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The KSA rankings are ridiculous of course. I'm willing to bet if they banned the Saudi men from higher education it might and focused on the women it might really elevate the rankings in a believable way. What I see as a character dichotomy between the males and females in Saudi Arabia is quite odd. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| coder wrote: |
Sorry. I couldn't follow your reasoning. You lost me after your first clause. The bottom line is you can get a TEFL MA degree in a US accredited institution in a full year. You said you couldn't. I proved you wrong.....again.
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Not much I can do about your lack of reading comprehension. And all you have proved thus far is your ignorance of the American educational system and inability to wish to know the facts.
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| The Gulf Arabs I've asked also pointed out that they can "get away" with so much more in a USA university than they ever would be able to at AUC/AUB. |
True and also true in the UK universities which now are more concerned about cash income with foreign students.
I guess none of those Saudi students that I met at AUC over my 3.5 years there ever graduated. AUC statistics showed 27 attending in 1986 and that was up to 50 last year. But since you apparently have intimate knowledge of every single Saudi with any sort of degree, one can only bow to your obviously superior knowledge.
VS |
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JacobTM
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 73
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I am currently in a M.A. in TESOL program in the U.S. at a public university.
The coursework can be difficult but you should be able to pass it if you are diligent. The real issue is, at least in NY state, to get a M.A. in TESOL you are required to do two full semesters of "student teaching", which means working a school for free for an entire academic year.
This is difficult to arrange, no doubt. The coursework is manageable and often practical. Sometimes you are reading theoretical writers who may not have a lot of practical application in your classrooms, but that's no different than lots of courses at any university.
Finding a way to live doing full-time work for free is the main issue.
I have been told that all other M.A.s in education only have 1 semester of "student teaching" so, hopefully, this may be a crazy rule of NY state only and other states may not require 1 year of unpaid work for such a degree. |
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