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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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 Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm. I like the idea of a connection between technological innovation and language spread, but I'm not totally convinced. German never really achieved worldwide influence, despite a marked genius for all things scientific and technical. Despite even having had a powerful army, and a few colonies in the sun.
Imperial spread seems to be the driver of linguistic spread too. Whether a declared empire, as with the British, Spanish and French. Or undeclared empire, as with the Americans. All following in the footsteps of Rome, of course... |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Imperial |
Don't you start. I've only just retrieved and re-sellotaped together my mediocre and non-prolific degree cert from the bin this morning. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| I predict there will be an increased need for teaching specialized English (AKA English for Specific Purposes) in many contexts as opposed to the general English being taught today around the world. Teachers will need to have the appropriate qualifications/academic credentials and be a quite tech savvy. |
We might share a bias as I think we've both mentioned experience with technical writing. And you've related moving from classroom instruction to education technology, so assessing language in terms of application could be criticized as narrow.
What I wrote above I did so some years ago for presentations, after advocating for the acquisition of any second language. But I've written some pretty negative stuff about the state of educational technology starting in 2004 when one effect of NoChildLeftBehind provided for spending on classroom tech (one company owned by close relatives of the Bush family) that bordered on fraudulent, imo. State sponsored education has, rightly and wrongly, provided contracts for various enterprises to the effect of a subsidy and a leverage to expand. Not in itself a bad thing, but its potential for waste and misuse is often unseen or ignored for the sake of its promoted intent.
The term "stake-holder" is a relatively new one in the assessment of educational policy.
Forgive the length of my reply, already, but our shared experience of working in the KSA might serve to better illustrate...the stark difference between girls' and boys' facilities was heartbreaking. I was related reports of physical conditions (the psychological effects rendered being another topic) that drop one's jaw. It could be a somber reminder to any gripe session among men: The women have it worse, by factors. Meanwhile, Riyadh is awash with ed-tech salesmen hawking wares as the "future" of education-- appliances and systems often deferred by county governments back in the States, and elsewhere.
So we might argue about the pace, utility and value of the prediction you make. I'm unsure one displaces the other, or that one will become more emphasized than the other. I wonder that conversational exchange doesn't form the basis of a technical one.
On Preview: Sasha, the greater fraction of the world was forced into an alliance to defeat the Germans. And of course you know that, so I think it's an interesting caveat. That so small a culture (and its language) posed such a threat...isn't that an argument to support the connection? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
You've related moving from classroom instruction to education technology, so assessing language in terms of application could be criticized as narrow.
....
So we might argue about the pace, utility and value of the prediction you make. I'm unsure one displaces the other, or that one will become more emphasized than the other. I wonder that conversational exchange doesn't form the basis of a technical one. |
For clarification, educational technology simply means using technology for teaching and learning whether in a face-to-face classroom environment or for distance learning. In no way does it equate to reducing the teacher's role or importance in favor of technology. |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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For as long as English speaking people advance technology (and its disciplines), English will remain an important language to learn. . . . The "digital revolution" did much to secure the dominance of English for the coming century.
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Yup.
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| For clarification, educational technology simply means using technology for teaching and learning whether in a face-to-face classroom environment or for distance learning. In no way does it equate to reducing the teacher's role or importance in favor of technology. |
I don't agree that's a given. Advocates of any particular appliance or system would always proclaim its alternative-- that educational technology only seeks to supplement/augment/amplify a teacher's role...But I would argue it doesn't always turn out that way, and why I said, "...but its potential for waste and misuse is often unseen or ignored for the sake of its promoted intent."
You say, "In no way does it equate..."
Certainly through no intention, a good will can be presumed, but that doesn't ensure an effect. And this can be said of any technology. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
On Preview: Sasha, the greater fraction of the world was forced into an alliance to defeat the Germans. And of course you know that, so I think it's an interesting caveat. That so small a culture (and its language) posed such a threat...isn't that an argument to support the connection? |
Not sure what 'on preview' is supposed to mean, but in any case, I am not so convinced that the Germans' history supports your argument. It is true that the first and second world wars saw much of the industrialised world oppose them. But theirs is no small culture, and they are no small people if you include the Austrians, and German-speaking peoples beyond German borders. Their music dominates high culture, as does their literature. German philosophy and thought was/is a major influence on modern history. In science and medicine they are still amongst the world leaders.
But territorially, they occupy only a small area, and only had control of larger areas for very brief periods. And it is this that bars German from being an important world language. Simply cannot compete with Spanish (what recent tech?) or Arabic (what recent tech?) for global influence.
I would contend that as soon as Anglophone power wanes - meaning US military might - then too will the power of English. I would point you in the direction of the mighty Russian word. In retreat globally since the 90s, despite cutting-edge rocketry and the like... |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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On Preview means as I was responding to another poster, I could see your post and felt it relevant.
I don't think either of us would dismiss the qualifications we're making...
How diplomatic of us.
I'll throw in that English is a Germanic language and that there's a deep tie between technology and military ascendency. |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
For clarification, educational technology simply means using technology for teaching and learning whether in a face-to-face classroom environment or for distance learning. In no way does it equate to reducing the teacher's role or importance in favor of technology.
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That would be true in an ideal world. But in the less-than-ideal world of some educational institutions, it is not always the case. In reality, conflicting budgets, politics, and philosophies can lead to less than ideal compromises. I know of several local instances where educational technology has indeed equated with a reduced teacher's role or reduced importance of the teacher.
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:17 am Post subject: |
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7 Cyberlearning Technologies Transforming Education (Huffington Post)
by Aaron Dubrow Become, Media officer for the National Science Foundation covering advances in computing, IT, cyberinfrastructure and engineering.
A fairly extensive article peppered with links that would please Doug Englebert or Ted Nelson, such as
Center for Innovative Research in Cyberlearning
K-12 Definition of Computational Learning
Designing Disruptive Learning Technologies (National Science Foundation)
And a reporting of stake-holders:
During that time, a lot of money has been invested in technology-enabled education by a lot of different stakeholders - public(NYTimes), private(TechCrunch, $500m in Q1 of 2014), philanthropic(NewYorker) -- and the results have been mixed. However, NSF's approach to cyber-learning has been different.
But I'll include commentary about NSF's past record by the user, Pollux, from /.For those who can't remember this far back, we have the National Science Foundation to thank for CORE-Plus, SIMMS, The Interactive Mathematics Program, and the Connected Mathematics Project [nsf.gov], along with other curricula otherwise known as "Leftist Math" that really caught on in the late 90's. While their intentions were good, and their involvement in creating new math programs helped reshape much needed reforms in how mathematics was taught, the programs pushed the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. (I'm speaking as a mathematics teacher who instructed students in CORE-Plus and CMP.)
As much as I am frustrated with the current methods of "integrating" technology into classrooms, given their past track record, I'm skeptical as to how the NSF can improve it.
"Stake-holders", as I mentioned, is a neutral, inclusive term, not merely the vested interests. ET has referred to teachers as "obtainers", versus "maintainers" and "sustainers". And, of course, ESL, a market that has grown more recently than ever before:To develop a version to teach English as a second language (ESL) to those in the U.S., the researchers interviewed immigrants to determine what cultural issues they found most problematic. The instruction they created -- available in multiple languages -- explains how to handle different situations that one might face as a new immigrant in the United States and provides tips on culturally appropriate behavior.
Students can practice on a range of devices, allowing them to use the program in preparation for classroom activities, as follow-up to classroom activities or as needed in the field. The ESL program even offers a virtual coach who provides help and feedback.
In 2012, Alelo partnered with the Commonwealth of Virginia to develop and test virtual role-play learning products for conversational practice in Chinese. Tammy McGraw, the former director of digital innovations and outreach at the Virginia Department of Education, had met Johnson at a Wired conference years earlier and, although Alelo was demonstrating cyberlearning technologies for soldiers, McGraw was struck by how the virtual characters were able to impart both linguistic and cultural lessons.
Moreover, the software could address the shortage of qualified teachers able to teach Chinese, Arabic and other less popular languages, while allowing the state to increase the number of students who were able to take classes that were over-enrolled.
The first Web-based course was tested last year via Virtual Virginia, a statewide virtual school program, and received overwhelmingly positive ratings from the students.
"The virtual classes enabled students to be more self-directed than teachers could normally support," McGraw said.
Recently, McGraw and Johnson have been adapting the insights learned in virtual role-playing research for a new platform: a robo-tutor. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| For clarification, educational technology simply means using technology for teaching and learning whether in a face-to-face classroom environment or for distance learning. In no way does it equate to reducing the teacher's role or importance in favor of technology. |
I don't agree that's a given. Advocates of any particular appliance or system would always proclaim its alternative-- that educational technology only seeks to supplement/augment/amplify a teacher's role...But I would argue it doesn't always turn out that way, and why I said, "...but its potential for waste and misuse is often unseen or ignored for the sake of its promoted intent."
You say, "In no way does it equate..."
Certainly through no intention, a good will can be presumed, but that doesn't ensure an effect. And this can be said of any technology. |
| AGoodStory wrote: |
| That would be true in an ideal world. But in the less-than-ideal world of some educational institutions, it is not always the case. In reality, conflicting budgets, politics, and philosophies can lead to less than ideal compromises. I know of several local instances where educational technology has indeed equated with a reduced teacher's role or reduced importance of the teacher. |
Frankly, there are teachers in 2015 who don't use any technology in their classrooms, yet are mediocre at teaching.
But this isn't about the here and now; the subject is about the need for EFL teachers over the next 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Potential teachers will come from the generation some of us teach now, and subsequently, their children and their children's children---the digital natives who grew up with technology. It will be a staple in (virtual) classrooms of the future.
Anyway, I doubt even you believe that by 2065, most teachers will still only be using a basic whiteboard and markers to teach (or worse, a blackboard, colored chalk, and dusty erasers). By then, most of us will either have one foot in the grave or have kicked the bucket. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| By then only the cockroaches will be around, scuttling over and under the radioactive wastelands where we used to teach. They'll be getting on with their little cockroach lives perfectly happily without English or EFL. Happy in New York, London, Moscow, Shanghai etc. They'll breed prolifically, making copies of themselves faster than odd socks in a laundry basket. They'll communicate using the most primitive, basic manner, befitting their toxic landscape, to which they are so well suited. That is all they'll need. Any tech in their world will just be the charred remnants of a greater world than they could ever have created themselves. Their only connection to this technology is that they are the bugs in the system. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| By then only the cockroaches will be around, scuttling over and under the radioactive wastelands where we used to teach. They'll be getting on with their little cockroach lives perfectly happily without English or EFL. |
Some of us might be reincarnated as cockroaches...  |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Their only connection to this technology is that they are the bugs in the system. |
Grace Hopper would likely approve of this pun!
| NomadSoul wrote: |
Frankly, there are teachers in 2015 who don't use any technology in their classrooms, yet are mediocre at teaching.
But this isn't about the here and now; the subject is about the need for EFL teachers over the next 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Potential teachers will come from the generation some of us teach now, and subsequently, their children and their children's children---the digital natives who grew up with technology. It will be a staple in (virtual) classrooms of the future.
Anyway, I doubt even you believe that by 2065, most teachers will still only be using a basic whiteboard and markers to teach (or worse, a blackboard, colored chalk, and dusty erasers). By then, most of us will either have one foot in the grave or have kicked the bucket. |
Even you?
You seem offended by a difference of opinion about what you claim is a clarification. And I am aware of what the subject of the thread is. The latter section of my last post explicitly addresses the future of ESL, teachers and technology.
If that's the case, I apologize. Few other posters saw the OP for more than the opportunity to make a joke.
Not that we don't need jokes! |
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