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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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 Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I'd sure rather teach in an international school in China than a state school back in the west. In order of importance...
- Easy sex with Chinese women.
- Can save much more in China.
- Housing provided.
- Less paperwork.
A better question is why those with teaching licences are still slaving it out in the west, IMO. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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-career progression
-not having to work 6 days a week in multiple illegal jobs
- being near family and friends
- being in a country they enjoy living in
- providing a good environment for their kids
- buying a property and putting down roots |
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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
-career progression
-not having to work 6 days a week in multiple illegal jobs
- being near family and friends
- being in a country they enjoy living in
- providing a good environment for their kids
- buying a property and putting down roots |
Good luck buying a property in a 'good environment' on a teaching salary in the UK. Not sure about other countries.
As for 6 days a week, I wouldn't be too sure. Do you have any idea the amount of paperwork, marking, lesson planning, stupid government hoops etc the teachers have to jump through? My mother, who was a teacher (a real one with proper quals, not an ESL hack) was regularly working until 9pm quite a few nights of the week until she retired. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Teachers in middle management in the UK make upto 40,000 a year.
You can get nice houses in quaint towns in Lancashire, Lincolnshire, Yorkshire etc for 100 grand, so that's entirely possible.
Plus they aren't polluted as hell, and don't do silly things there like trying to drink boiled water in the summer and refusing to turn on the AC incase you get sick from the 'cold wind' |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
Teachers in middle management in the UK make upto 40,000 a year.
You can get nice houses in quaint towns in Lancashire, Lincolnshire, Yorkshire etc for 100 grand, so that's entirely possible.
Plus they aren't polluted as hell, and don't do silly things there like trying to drink boiled water in the summer and refusing to turn on the AC incase you get sick from the 'cold wind' |
Hahaha... these are all good points, however, if one is not qualified then China is sky's the limit in terms of how much you want to make. At home you can make 40-65k CAD a year, however, you need to deal with a lot more politics then you would here. I like the atmosphere here (not literally), but I enjoy myself. I can go out for walks at night and not have to worry about some drunks trying to start something with me. A teachers salary gives a comfortable middle-class lifestyle at home, and does the same here. Different strokes, different folks I suppose.
But to the OP, I don't know if having an MA or PHD is totally worth it. I see universities advertising for an extra 5-600RMB a month of you have those qualifications. I can go and teach little boogers for 2 hours and make that extra money, I don't see the value in it. Also, international schools require you to be there for 40 hours a week for your 25k RMB a month. If I wanted to work longer than 20 hours a week then I could make that sort of cash without having an MA or PHD. Heck, some of the non-native speakers are rolling in the dough by working at like 2-3 training centres. 15-20k RMB is huge money when you come from the eastern block. |
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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
Teachers in middle management in the UK make upto 40,000 a year.
You can get nice houses in quaint towns in Lancashire, Lincolnshire, Yorkshire etc for 100 grand, so that's entirely possible.
Plus they aren't polluted as hell, and don't do silly things there like trying to drink boiled water in the summer and refusing to turn on the AC incase you get sick from the 'cold wind' |
I'm talking about newly qualifieds. Needless to say however - the salary scales in international schools in China also go up to that level, so it's not as if you take a salary hit by coming here.
A newly qualified teacher in the UK can expect to earn around 20k RMB a month. Taxation is slightly higher than China levels. But you've got to pay for your housing out of that, whereas any international school in China will provide that for free.
Then we get onto the much easier availability of sex, and the lack of endless paperwork and government noise...I can certainly see why a certified teacher would come to China.
[quote=Markness]But to the OP, I don't know if having an MA or PHD is totally worth it. I see universities advertising for an extra 5-600RMB a month of you have those qualifications. I can go and teach little boogers for 2 hours and make that extra money, I don't see the value in it. Also, international schools require you to be there for 40 hours a week for your 25k RMB a month. If I wanted to work longer than 20 hours a week then I could make that sort of cash without having an MA or PHD. Heck, some of the non-native speakers are rolling in the dough by working at like 2-3 training centres. 15-20k RMB is huge money when you come from the eastern block.[/quote]
MA TESOL working in a Chinese public uni is a joke, the extra 500rmb a month is an insult and does not compensate for the opportunity cost of losing a years wages while you take the MA.
However, there's some joint venture uni programs that pay 20-30k RMB a month that require an MA. That's how you can get an MA to pay for itself. |
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Hatcher
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I agree.
The best job in terms of pay n Korea was 6000USD a month.
But I see many ads here for over 20,000 RMB for international schools.
I do lots of guys married to Koreans and they can have as many jobs as they like. Lots make 6-8,000,000/mo. Can do the same here. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I agree.
The best job in terms of pay n Korea was 6000USD a month.
But I see many ads here for over 20,000 RMB for international schools.
I do lots of guys married to Koreans and they can have as many jobs as they like. Lots make 6-8,000,000/mo. Can do the same here. |
You're making no sense at all. What was the best job in Korea as far as you are concerned?
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| I do lots of guys married to Koreans |
WTF? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hatcher wrote: |
I do lots of guys married to Koreans.
....
Can do the same here. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck buying a property in a 'good environment' on a teaching salary in the UK. Not sure about other countries.
As for 6 days a week, I wouldn't be too sure. Do you have any idea the amount of paperwork, marking, lesson planning, stupid government hoops etc the teachers have to jump through? My mother, who was a teacher (a real one with proper quals, not an ESL hack) was regularly working until 9pm quite a few nights of the week until she retired.
Then we get onto the much easier availability of sex |
Ok so you dealt with 2 out of 6 of the points I raised. Talking about the availibilty of sex is also painting you in a rather sleazy light. Most normal guys don't really see geting action as a problem unless they're going to the middle East or other such conservative places. |
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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
Then we get onto the much easier availability of sex |
Ok so you dealt with 2 out of 6 of the points I raised. Talking about the availibilty of sex is also painting you in a rather sleazy light. Most normal guys don't really see geting action as a problem unless they're going to the middle East or other such conservative places.[/quote]
Getting action in China is surely waaay easier than Europe, and I imagine America too although I've never been there. I don't really care if that paints me in a sleazy light, anyone who says one of the attractions of SEA isn't the women is living with their head in the sand (or is gay).
To address the points systematically...
1) Career progression: They have salary scales in international schools in China, and you make more money per each year of experience, the same as you would do back home.
2) 6 days a week - already dealt with...public school teachers in the West work a ton of hours, and if you're earning 25k RMB a month with housing provided, you don't need to work 6 days a week anyway. I only do 6 days a week because I'm a TEFL hack and have to hustle for the cash.
3) Family and friends - might be a downside depending on your personality (and your family...some families quite frankly suck).
4) Enjoyable country - most international schools are located in big tier 1 cities. Not out in the sticks with the backwards Chinese village people letting their babies shit in the street. I see no reason why one cannot have an enjoyable life here. In addition to that, great countries are just a short flight away on vacation - Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines...fantastic. Much better than the likes of Spain and Italy.
5) Good environment for kids - a decent international school will offer free or heavily subsidised education for the teachers children. I'd say it's a net benefit seeing the world and another culture. Plus for older kids...imagine being 15-17, white, and in China...would be amazing...yeah yeah I'm referring to Asian women again, sue me.
6) Nothing stops you buying a property in the west while you work in China. The school will match your salary in the west, while providing you free accom here, so you can continue to service a mortgage if you so desire. The bank doesn't care where you work in the world, only that there's enough cash coming in to service the debt. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:10 am Post subject: |
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To address the points systematically...
1) Career progression: They have salary scales in international schools in China, and you make more money per each year of experience, the same as you would do back home.
2) 6 days a week - already dealt with...public school teachers in the West work a ton of hours, and if you're earning 25k RMB a month with housing provided, you don't need to work 6 days a week anyway. I only do 6 days a week because I'm a TEFL hack and have to hustle for the cash.
3) Family and friends - might be a downside depending on your personality (and your family...some families quite frankly suck).
4) Enjoyable country - most international schools are located in big tier 1
cities. Not out in the sticks with the backwards Chinese village people letting their babies shit in the street. I see no reason why one cannot have an enjoyable life here. In addition to that, great countries are just a short flight away on vacation - Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines...fantastic. Much better than the likes of Spain and Italy.
5) Good environment for kids - a decent international school will offer free or heavily subsidised education for the teachers children. I'd say it's a net benefit
seeing the world and another culture. Plus for older kids...imagine being 15-17, white, and in China...would be amazing...yeah yeah I'm referring to Asian women again, sue me.
6) Nothing stops you buying a property in the west while you work in China. The school will match your salary in the west, while providing you free accom here, so you can continue to service a mortgage if you so desire. The bank doesn't care where you work in the world, only that there's enough cash coming in to service the debt. |
Well believe it or not some people just prefer to live, work and bring up their kids in their country of origin rather than some unpleasant place thousands of miles away where they don't speak the language or particularly like the culture. Not even saying I agree with them but just surprised you can't answer your own question about why those with teaching licences are still slaving it out in the west. As evidenced by your earlier comments about saving and salaries, you seem to find it very difficult to grasp the fact that other people may have different ways of looking at things to your own. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I work at a Chinese international school and would say certified teachers and PhDs are definitely in demand. They can brag about them in their advertising and it makes the school look real.
That being said, there are not enough available to fill the slots usually so they will take on people with master's degrees or a lot of teaching experience for some non-subject-matter jobs.
The vast majority of the certified teachers here are younger folks looking for something different. A lot of them did TFA or a program like that to get certified. Pretty much all seem to plan to move back to their home country if they have kids. Otherwise they're pretty content to stay here and save.
The problem you have is with Chinese HR. They try to get the teachers to accept much lower pay than they're worth and then are surprised when the teachers leave early or don't re-sign. This leads to very high turnover. They don't seem to realize that high turnover costs the school more than paying reasonable salaries. The teachers who are better at negotiating tend to stay quite a while because it's really a pretty good gig if you're being paid appropriately. |
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tlkdmc
Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Big demand for certified teachers and PhDs |
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| Hatcher wrote: |
I see job ads for cert teachers, usually American or Brits.
Seems the demand is very high. Is the supply there?
Same goes for PhDs |
What is strange about this post is that if the demand is very high and the are a lot of job advertisements, then English only dictates that the supply is not there. If the supply was/is there and jobs were filled it makes sense that there would be no advertising. Only common sense.  |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
Well believe it or not some people just prefer to live, work and bring up their kids in their country of origin rather than some unpleasant place thousands of miles away where they don't speak the language or particularly like the culture. Not even saying I agree with them but just surprised you can't answer your own question about why those with teaching licences are still slaving it out in the west. As evidenced by your earlier comments about saving and salaries, you seem to find it very difficult to grasp the fact that other people may have different ways of looking at things to your own. |
Thank you.
There are those whose fortunate combination of education, location, and ability have helped them to do quite well in both the private and public systems in the U.S. Some districts aren't plagued by budget cutbacks and shortfalls. Many of those people who work in those systems actually make a good living and have excellent benefits and a pension to look forward to.
The comment about the politics of western academia is particularly pertinent in the U.S.. I've heard it said that the politics in academia rivals that of the military and the Vatican. I believe it. I read an article on CNN or Business Insider recently that 65-75% of all university and college professors in the U.S. are adjunct professors. (Adjunct is a fifty dollar word for part-time). Even PhDs have difficulty living on part-time pay. Adjuncts stay in the game while they wait for an opening in their department or at another university where they can get a full-time job and be put on the tenure track so they may join the country club of academia.
It's a bit rosier for the primary and secondary school teacher in many states and districts within. In most cases, if one obtains a full-time position, he has the keys to the country club contingent upon good behavior and moving his students ahead by helping them to achieve higher test scores (legally or illegally. Recently, three or four teachers in the U.S. received jail sentences for fudging the scores).
Emp1 has a point about not having to put up with much politics (in Chinese public schools, anyway. I'd imagine that schools that exist for-profit are rife with politics).
The concepts "professional" and "professionalism" exist within the individual teacher. Granted, one assumes that said professionalism is supported by formal education and fancy paperwork, but I've seen a few non-degreed and non-certificate holders perform splendidly in class.
Back to the OP's original question about certification: if the ad specifies "certified teachers", it is probably a call for bearers of four-year college degrees and some sort of licensure, but given the often-vague nature of Chinese English, the school may just want someone with any TEFL certificate. It doesn't hurt to try. |
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