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LeiFeng
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 21
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 Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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If it weren't a university job, I would be surprised, but I have seen a number of university or university-associated middle school jobs in Beijing in the 5000 to 7000 range. I have to wonder if there are really fresh PhDs in Beijing scraping by on 7500 RMB a month.
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| Beijing is kind of over foreigner teachers. Maybe do better in 2nd and 3rd tier cities. |
If posts in Polish on BJ Craigslist for English teachers for Hangzhou and Fuzhou, and offering 10,000-range salaries are any indication, then "the golden day of the foreigner" is a long way from over. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
| Perhaps white privileged is something you know about "zacharybilton" cause no brother is gonna admit to a name like that. |
Of course not. |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| asiannationmc wrote: |
| Is this the forum for that kind of admission. |
Where one derail ends another begins...
No, it doesn't have to be, but policing language is tricky. And even if joking about a "reality" of ESL culture (a fading character of asymmetric and socio-economic relationships that can be respected as well as exploited) positing such a "pun", vaguely or not, on a public board is more an exercise of unchecked privilege. My first association was Monty Python's sketch Nudge Nudge Wink Wink
Thanks for that response asiannationmc. Enjoy your retirement. I'll likely die with my boots on. |
Well, since you've derailed my thread...
I looked at the famous nudge wink sketch again after all these years, and I notice that at no time does Eric Idle say 'wink, or actually wink. Interesting.
Now, if I may attempt to get back on track, what I was originally getting at in post one was what do they mean offering a PhD less than $1,000 a month? What sort of broken down, given up upon doctor of philosophy are they expecting in Beijing for that wage?
Me, I dropped out of Wally's Vocational Air Condition Fix-It College and had to forge my Master Of AC cert at Speedy's, so I'm worth no more than the pittance of Chairman Maos they pay me, but an actual PhD or M.A. deserves better than what that school is offering. Don't you think? |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| water rat wrote: |
Now, if I may attempt to get back on track, what I was originally getting at in post one was what do they mean offering a PhD less than $1,000 a month? What sort of broken down, given up upon doctor of philosophy are they expecting in Beijing for that wage?
Me, I dropped out of Wally's Vocational Air Condition Fix-It College and had to forge my Master Of AC cert at Speedy's, so I'm worth no more than the pittance of Chairman Maos they pay me, but an actual PhD or M.A. deserves better than what that school is offering. Don't you think? |
Undoubtedly.
Yet it's a fairly nuanced topic given (1) an international market, and (2) varying degrees of development among nations with conflicting (complex) policies toward western norms. Like most people, I experience less than I can read about, but I can attest to a similar pattern among KSA contractors-- projects/institutions presenting an academic appearance with little experience in professional/departmental development. I'll gamble Spiral would affirm a statement that Europe's institutions better recognize differences of academic achievement/experience, and thus responsibility and pay; Established traditions have that advantage.
Topics of policy are rarely considered in deliberations of what "ought to be", often substantiated by convenient observations of "market forces" from both "sides" of our vocation-- employers and employed.
What X deserves? The verb alone is fraught with subjectivity. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Now, if I may attempt to get back on track, what I was originally getting at in post one was what do they mean offering a PhD less than $1,000 a month? What sort of broken down, given up upon doctor of philosophy are they expecting in Beijing for that wage? |
Use to be that retired folk would take these jobs just to expand on an Asian experience, however with the tighter controls on the 60+ employment of foreigners, it would seem that perhaps doctoral pickin's may be slim. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Now, if I may attempt to get back on track, what I was originally getting at in post one was what do they mean offering a PhD less than $1,000 a month? What sort of broken down, given up upon doctor of philosophy are they expecting in Beijing for that wage? |
Use to be that retired folk would take these jobs just to expand on an Asian experience, however with the tighter controls on the 60+ employment of foreigners, it would seem that perhaps doctoral pickin's may be slim. |
I don't think that American PhDs are in any shorter supply these days. I can't find the source at the moment, but I read recently that 60-75% of professors in American universities are adjunct. That means: part-time schedules and part-time pay, usually inconvenient schedules, no insurance benefits, and worst of all--- having to teach freshman classes (something that most university teachers--- especially PhDs--- want to avoid).
It would seem that non-tenured and non-tenure-track PhDs would head to foreign countries to teach (the young and unmarried ones, anyway).
The comparatively low pay offered to PhDs could be that that particular sheepskin is regarded with suspicion in China. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| The comparatively low pay offered to PhDs could be that that particular sheepskin is regarded with suspicion in China. |
doubt it as this has been a typical pay structure for a long time. Same as when I came here 15 years ago. Short supply or not, the 60 rule has been enforced in Beijing for the last couple of years and yeah, there are some still working .. perhaps some that will be new hires, however last year two Japanese profs were turned down due to age at the uni I worked at and personal told me tht they could not hire anyone over the age of 60.. and I have seen the same mentioned in job advertisements. Sometimes even younger....
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Requirements Nationality: British, American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, Irish, South African
Age: 18 to 45
Experience: Required
TEFL or higher teaching certificate: Required (No TEFL? click here)
BA Degree (or Higher): Required |
This job advertised 25 K
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| part-time schedules and part-time pay |
In Washington, part timers were paid more and due to a shortage of teachers and they had around enough hours to qualify for payments into the retirement acct. plus could draw unemployment during the breaks due to status of their jobs which was not offered to full timers. Insurance was picked up by the state. Again that was some time ago so not sure as to what the situation is now. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Requirements Nationality: British, American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, Irish, South African
Age: 18 to 45
Experience: Required
TEFL or higher teaching certificate: Required (No TEFL? click here)
BA Degree (or Higher): Required |
Is it me? Or is this sort of disconnect dismaying to others with experience? Isn't it just a recruiter locating a warm body? And isn't the "click here" for TEFL certificate part and parcel of the more "scammy side" of our vocation? |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| That pay is just sad, and for Beijing, wow. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Is it me? Or is this sort of disconnect dismaying to others with experience? Isn't it just a recruiter locating a warm body? And isn't the "click here" for TEFL certificate part and parcel of the more "scammy side" of our vocation? |
Could be,...it was for an Art Teacher as posted .. but who knows. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| How would an Art teacher have a BA at the age of 18? Barring the rare exceptions of prodigies and savants. That's what I meant by "disconnect". |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
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| The comparatively low pay offered to PhDs could be that that particular sheepskin is regarded with suspicion in China. |
doubt it as this has been a typical pay structure for a long time.
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I am not implying that the attitude is recent. The ~2,000-2,500 rmb difference between a BA level teacher and a PhD level teacher is a pittance, especially if the PhD is an English major or actually teaches upperclassmen subjects. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| How would an Art teacher have a BA at the age of 18? Barring the rare exceptions of prodigies and savants. That's what I meant by "disconnect". |
A lot of the inquiries I receive have that stock 18-45 range and could be just the template used. I am more concerned by the 45 of the two figures. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| I am not implying that the attitude is recent. |
When I came to China 3800 was a good salary and it was really sufficient to provide. My first apartment was less than 600rmb per month and it was kind of a nice place near the center of Changchun and I lived right across from the Military commanders compound. The difference illustrated now seems much more out of line than it did when I arrive but as you said, the pay structure has survived. Often years ago, a foreigner was in charge of recruitment and often did it during the summer breaks. When I met the guy who offered my first china job it was in Seattle. He did verify all degrees and work history, not police checks. I am not saying that all institutions operated the same way 15 years ago, however, it was a different economy and exchange rate. Today's salaries should not be structured as they were 15 yrs ago. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I think they just mention the PhD pay to try to convince other job seekers that PhDs apply for their positions, so they should be happy with the low salary they are paid for their BA.
But really, these are very basic classes. They don't need a PhD.
I remember looking at some high school jobs back in America and the pay bump for a Master's or PhD was similarly minimal...like $500 per year or something. It's just not really necessary for that job either.
EDIT:
I don't think the CoL in Beijing is THAT much higher than other major cities (unless you have to pay your own housing) but not many people want to work here. Especially on the outskirts where you get all the pollution but it's an hour and a half to all the good restaurants. Restaurants are a bit more expensive here and maybe bars are (no personal experience there) but not off the charts. I do dislike that it's much harder to find street food in all the places in Beijing I've been. In Chengdu you can grab amazing street food everywhere...same with Chongqing or any other Chinese city I've been to. Some sort of government crackdown on street food here. That's the biggest difference in CoL besides housing. |
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