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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:07 pm Post subject: debunking the myth |
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| The only time I use the computer in the classroom is to display instructions for their assignment or homework. I assign homework in every class so that we can start the next class with the students reading what they have written. |
I use technology here because I think the boredom threshold of most Chinese students is generally very low. This arises, I think, from "overkill" in the use of books and assignments, and homework, from middle school onwards, when, essentially, Chinese adolescents have 'no life' anymore - by the time they reach university, they are simply jaded and many of them hate the sight of books.
When I was in Japan, I saw a similar phenomenon. It took massive effort to reach university, especially the good universities in Japan, but then - once the Japanese students reached their goal of entering their desired university - the pressure was off, and they had a much more relaxed time, compared with their high school academic efforts - although in Japan's defence (scholastic system) - the sport structure in schools is much more developed compared with China.
Back to China - and the university classroom. I look at technology like the spices which make meals more palatable. Yes, it is possible to teach 'old school' - but most students will not enjoy those classes, unless the teacher were truly exceptional and compelling.
I have spoken to a lot of students here, and they tell me that most of their teachers (referring to their fellow Chinese teachers) are boring, and that most of the classes are a waste of time. There are a few teachers who really interest the students, and they are generally teachers who use a combination of technology and books and personal magnetism. One student referred to an exceptional Chinese teacher of English - and said that this teacher was great because he really challenged the students in class - put them on the spot. After reflection - I think this was easier in this situation, because the teacher was Chinese and the students were Chinese. Not so sure that this method would be as successful if the teacher challenging the students (to their limits) were a foreigner.
Just as there are 'horses for courses' - there are also teachers who use different methods and some of them can 'pull off' teaching 'old school' with success, while others would have empty classes (if permitted) with such an approach.
In Saudi, some of the favorite teachers were 'old school' and they often used the 'drill sergeant' approach (authoritarian) to teach the Saudi students. In Saudi, those old school teachers often were very successful, and at my old place in Saudi, the most successful teacher (cited) was one who used the old school method to great effect. It was like entering a class with Mr Chips at the helm, but I don't think that approach would go down well here. The teacher in question is 72 years old, and keeps getting renewed every year, even though the official retirement age is 60. Once you are in, in Saudi, ageism is less of an issue, compared with China, South Korea and Japan. Another teacher in Saudi, an 'Oxford Old Boy' just retired last year, at age 82 years, after teaching for approximately 40 years there!
Ghost in China |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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| rogerwilco wrote: |
| buravirgil wrote: |
I have also had to a do a fair amount of gentle shushing as I haven't witnessed respecting a speaker as widely adopted. And there are reasons for that...
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I explain to my students that if they are not quiet while their classmate is speaking, then I will ask the student assigned to speak to repeat what they said again and again.
It does seem like I am punishing the student that I asked to speak. But, it does not take long for the students to realize that they need to be quiet in class, or that they will soon be the one asked to repeat and repeat. |
That's vintage classroom control, and I'm happy it works for you. I place a premium on identifying behaviors that distract or interrupt and expressing a deference for collaboration. I tend to model what I want. I don't consider the shushing to be a negative, but an expression of "I'm trying to hear; Join me." Silence has its place in a classroom; mostly during testing.
Teaching styles can differ widely, but a common element to excellence is the attentiveness of a teacher. That quality isn't always apparent to observers because it is a set of internalized principles. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: debunking the myth |
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| ghost wrote: |
I use technology here because I think the boredom threshold of most Chinese students is generally very low......
One student referred to an exceptional Chinese teacher of English - and said that this teacher was great because he really challenged the students in class - put them on the spot. After reflection - I think this was easier in this situation, because the teacher was Chinese and the students were Chinese. Not so sure that this method would be as successful if the teacher challenging the students (to their limits) were a foreigner.
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Why are you so worried about your students being bored ?
I really enjoy most of my classes, and I enjoy joking with them. There is a lot of laughter in my classes.
But, there is also a time to be serious and to have them work.
It is OK for me if they get bored.
I was bored when I was a student, and I survived 
Challenging the students helps keep them from getting so bored !
I try to gently push each student to the limits of their English ability.
The better students get intellectually stimulated, and the poorer students are challenged to try and improve their English. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| That's vintage classroom control.. |
I also explain to them that it is a speaking and listening class.
The students should listen to what their classmate is saying because I often will ask them to tell me what the speaker just said, or to ask the speaker a follow-up question.
The attentiveness of the students is also a good thing in the classroom. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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| rogerwilco wrote: |
| buravirgil wrote: |
| That's vintage classroom control.. |
I also explain to them that it is a speaking and listening class.
The students should listen to what their classmate is saying because I often will ask them to tell me what the speaker just said, or to ask the speaker a follow-up question.
The attentiveness of the students is also a good thing in the classroom. |
Are you parsing? Because there's a corrective tone to these replies.
Querying students to demonstrate a desired behavior is, again, control, and a matter of style. I'm happy it works for you, and am unsurprised you readily provide a context and purpose. Yet I likely wouldn't direct an individual to "prove" their attentiveness/comprehension through a follow-up, but solicit many versus an individual. And that's just a difference of style and I won't bore you with pedagogical precepts that gird it. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| And that's just a difference of style and I won't bore you with pedagogical precepts that gird it. |
Thanks for not boring me. Good night |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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'Oral English' comprises both speaking and listening.
Hearing a student speak as an individual is essential as you've got to grade them somehow.
The trick is to check them out as they are talking to each other - not to you as teacher.
A warm up class song is essential. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Each to their own but I still find it weird that people use songs for uni students. Personally I'd only do this with kids up to secondary school age.
I know in China some people like singing, but some people hate it and find it embarrassing. |
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LeiFeng
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I have used an "old school" approach for several long stretches, while at my one previous university job and teaching in foundation programs and high schools. However, it was not "books and chalk," as one of my first requirements for oral English classes is that students close any notebooks most or all of the time, and I avoid using the board during the class (I often write assignments or relevant material on the board before the class, and allow students to copy down as needed at the very end of the period (I also don't use textbooks much, as first, most of them are dull and make students resentful and cynical, and second, they give students a place to "hide," as do notebooks (they pretend to be hard at work reading the textbook/taking notes so that nobody will ask them questions or engage them in discussion). I did a workshop in Rassias Method before coming to China, which put a lot of weight on keeping conversation alive and not encumbered with whiteboard/notebook/page-flipping/projector/computer activity, and I've stuck to that for the most part.
However, I have also had stretches where I used images and video/audio clips using computer and projector on a regular basis. I didn't notice that students were either more or less engaged in general when I was using technology than when I was not. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Deats wrote: |
Each to their own but I still find it weird that people use songs for uni students. Personally I'd only do this with kids up to secondary school age.
I know in China some people like singing, but some people hate it and find it embarrassing. |
Not sure about this.
Chinese kids are all over Western pop songs and the fact that most of my freshers are 2/3 years behind their western counterparts in terms of maturity points to their use. They are certainly not embarrassed, as singing is totally anonymous.
One of my hardest case too cool for school uni boys came alive when he could sing 'as long as you love me babee'.
The fact that 'some people hate it' is no reason not to use it.
Remember we're looking to provide as many pathways as we can for students to re engage with the subject.
I mean I can't speak French despite 3 years of High School study, but I can sing Frere Jacques. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:29 am Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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| rogerwilco wrote: |
| buravirgil wrote: |
I have also had to a do a fair amount of gentle shushing as I haven't witnessed respecting a speaker as widely adopted. And there are reasons for that...
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I explain to my students that if they are not quiet while their classmate is speaking, then I will ask the student assigned to speak to repeat what they said again and again.
It does seem like I am punishing the student that I asked to speak. But, it does not take long for the students to realize that they need to be quiet in class, or that they will soon be the one asked to repeat and repeat. |
If this happens in my class I stop the student who is speaking and make the offender take over. Works very well. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:30 am Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
| If this happens in my class I stop the student who is speaking and make the offender take over. Works very well. |
"Works very well" to the ends you desire in your classroom, but not so much for me...
I mention sushing in a response about conducting classes to have everyone speak, and garner two helpful replies about discipline. And the replies are rational, and a common advocacy for exerting control over a classroom. But I don't happen to value it over modeling a deference for collaboration. I'm demonstrating an expectation-- receiving a message. As I stated, I tend to model behaviors I want students to adopt, and do so in a setting that's not accustomed to it. I don't expect (nor require) its immediate (or strict) adoption for a host of reasons.
But discipline is an important issue, So why not? "Offender" Really? And both posts admit asserting a consequence for an offense disrupts a process, and perhaps is unfair to the speaker, but imply its correction facilitates a more desirable environment in the future. And imply is the word. It's assumed maintaining silence in a class produces the best learning outcomes. But there's a ton of research on this and it is a complex issue.
I realize experienced teachers are just sharing, but I also realize I've likely been teaching as long, if not longer, than 80% of the posters here, and I have very good reasons for proceeding as I do. And I'll also say there certainly are circumstances in which classroom control, discipline, and strict adherence to established procedure are a priority for me as well. |
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Son of Bud Powell
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Deats wrote: |
Where I used to teach we had computer classrooms and all the mod cons. The problem was that all the computers were knackered with viruses. Half of the time I couldn't use what I'd taken to class as it took about 30 mins for the technician to fix the computers - his method was very advanced... switch off, switch on. Even the projector often didn't work. So I had to prepare 2 lessons - 1 using tech and something to fall back on. This was BS.
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This has been my experience as well. Where there have been separate computer work stations, each computer was full of garbage that the computer technician wouldn't get rid of.
The modern technology of projectors with Power Point is fine, but too often, the FTs I have known who use it on a regular basis use it to entertain with content that has little to no educational value.
In an oral English course, it's nice to have the technology to provide prompts if it actually helps the teacher and serves the purpose of the class. It's nice to be able to project something onto a screen rather than to spend way too much time writing it out or waiting for the school print shop to print out the handouts.
For classes such as history and literature, little can replace the book. Sorry. The book is for studying. Class room technology can be useful for conducting discussions, but it cannot replace the book for providing course content.
The technology should be employed to support the book, not replace it. |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Posts: 153
Location: Moving up the food chain!
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:24 am Post subject: |
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i use technology a lot in my lessons; i use a unit PPT to introduce the learning goals each class with new vocab highlighted for them. technology for me is more about keeping us both organized and providing them with a visual reference during the lesson. i'll use it to teach a mini-lesson, and then when we start activities there'll be a series of tasks. every student will complete the first or second task, but the last task is a bit more challenging and meant to differentiate learning for my more advanced kids. my students also plan their own investigations, so i often have an outline of what they need to think about as they do that.
i also use SMART Board software every now and then. you don't need an interactive whiteboard for this either - you can still make use of the program with an IR mouse that you could pass around to your students to do the activity. think a collection of interactive activities for students - super easy to customize. look online for a code, they're around.
using technology also has the distinct advantage of looking really good when visitors drop by to your classes  |
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toteach
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
'Oral English' comprises both speaking and listening.
Hearing a student speak as an individual is essential as you've got to grade them somehow.
The trick is to check them out as they are talking to each other - not to you as teacher.
A warm up class song is essential. |
Can you share a list of the songs you'd suggest? (With or without music?) |
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