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Yokaides
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't dabble in work politics kids. It won't end well for both parties. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:22 am Post subject: |
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You absolutely need to know the labour rules when you start working in Japan, but you don't necessarily need to join a union.
Know the labour rules -
http://www.hataraku.metro.tokyo.jp/soudan-c/center/e/index.html
You can read the PDF version.
If you need to consult someone, go to your ward office or city office. Beyond that, there are many bilingual law offices in Tokyo that will do consultations.
This riskyrunner person is an attention-seeker and is obsessed with the topic. Just let it go already. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Well said! And thanks for posting that link. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Nothing wrong with joining the union. Only RSL runner's intentions are selfish or he is on some Don Quixote type of crusade. Either way, I think his reasons are not shared by any of us, and all of his opinions, even if they happen to be right, should be ignored. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| Some are also saying the General Union is a part of the companies. |
I did not say that. I took some time to answer the question you directed at me, and the least you could do is read the answer properly before you pooh-pooh it.
| rslrunner wrote: |
| As an outsider, I am the perfect person to be advocating for these things. |
You have a notorious grudge and no skin in the game. I'd say you're the last person anyone should listen to. |
Pitarou, this is what you said: "Most unions won't help you at all. They are under the direct control of the companies whose workers they are supposed to represent." So I said, "Some are also saying the General Union is a part of the companies."
How did I misread your answer?
On a larger note, I do not post here to make friends. I post because people who have been in Japan for several years and who post here have grown to tolerate conditions that are intolerable. There has been a huge vacuum in the posts here in terms of addressing serious problems, and I am looking to serve as a countervailing force.
If what I am saying is accurate, then my motives and character should not come into question. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
Joining the union immediately after starting in Japan sets the tone and puts the employee on notice that manipulative conduct will be counter-productive.
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No. It sets the tone for "You are still on probation. We don't need you anymore. Pack your stuff and get out of OUR apartment." |
This is against the law! Nobody can be fired for merely joining the General Union.
Enough with the passive-aggressive scare tactics. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
Joining the union immediately after starting in Japan sets the tone and puts the employee on notice that manipulative conduct will be counter-productive.
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No. It sets the tone for "You are still on probation. We don't need you anymore. Pack your stuff and get out of OUR apartment." |
This is against the law! Nobody can be fired for merely joining the General Union.
Enough with the passive-aggressive scare tactics. |
How hard would it be to find another reason, if one really tried? I mean, what company that knows anything of the labour law and skirting it, would give this as the reason for dismissal? |
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jkozera
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Same in the states, try to make a union in today's world, see how long your job lasts. I used to work at a call center and the pay was awful. Any time someone mentioned the word "union" within a month, or less, they were let go for the dumbest reasons like, their calls were too long or too short, they were a few seconds late back from break, stuff like that. Companies will find a way around the law to fire someone
| rslrunner wrote: |
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
Joining the union immediately after starting in Japan sets the tone and puts the employee on notice that manipulative conduct will be counter-productive.
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No. It sets the tone for "You are still on probation. We don't need you anymore. Pack your stuff and get out of OUR apartment." |
This is against the law! Nobody can be fired for merely joining the General Union.
Enough with the passive-aggressive scare tactics. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
Joining the union immediately after starting in Japan sets the tone and puts the employee on notice that manipulative conduct will be counter-productive.
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No. It sets the tone for "You are still on probation. We don't need you anymore. Pack your stuff and get out of OUR apartment." |
This is against the law! Nobody can be fired for merely joining the General Union.
Enough with the passive-aggressive scare tactics. |
How hard would it be to find another reason, if one really tried? I mean, what company that knows anything of the labour law and skirting it, would give this as the reason for dismissal? |
They could find another reason, but they really don't need to. That's the thing about PROBATIONARY periods. They don't NEED a reason. Neither does the employee. Probationary periods are there to see how it goes. Usually in Japan, if the probationary period is over or there wasn't one to start with, then they'll wait until the end of the contract and just not recontract you. It's one of the advantages for employers using dispatch companies. The school isn't not recontracting you. They are requesting a new employee from the dispatch company or switching companies. The dispatch company is unable to find you another suitable placement. Therefore, you are out of a job. I guess this doesn't work with eikaiwa. They just don't recontract you. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Does anyone know of any specific examples of people who are fired for joining the General Union? |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
Pitarou, this is what you said: "Most unions won't help you at all. They are under the direct control of the companies whose workers they are supposed to represent." So I said, "Some are also saying the General Union is a part of the companies."
How did I misread your answer? |
You misread my answer by taking the word "most" to mean "all". And from the rest of my answer, it should be clear that I do not include General Union among that "most" group.
Try re-reading my answer, and see if you can understand what I'm saying this time.
If you understand it now, that's great.
If you don't -- if you still think I said that General Union is controlled by companies -- well, I'm no expert, but has it occurred to you that you might have a reading comprehension problem? It would fit with other things you said. You complained a lot that you weren't given enough time to study the Aeon training materials; maybe the real problem was that you needed more time than most trainees to understand it? |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
Pitarou, this is what you said: "Most unions won't help you at all. They are under the direct control of the companies whose workers they are supposed to represent." So I said, "Some are also saying the General Union is a part of the companies."
How did I misread your answer? |
You misread my answer by taking the word "most" to mean "all". And from the rest of my answer, it should be clear that I do not include General Union among that "most" group.
Try re-reading my answer, and see if you can understand what I'm saying this time.
If you understand it now, that's great.
If you don't -- if you still think I said that General Union is controlled by companies -- well, I'm no expert, but has it occurred to you that you might have a reading comprehension problem? It would fit with other things you said. You complained a lot that you weren't given enough time to study the Aeon training materials; maybe the real problem was that you needed more time than most trainees to understand it? |
You did write, "For example, if you're a part-time worker who fears dismissal and you're doing enough saabisu zangyou (unpaid overtime) to make full-time hours, there's a case for joining something like General Union."
That statement came within striking distance to disassociating the General Union from other unions that have no independence from management, but I had to clarify. I just wanted to make sure.
So now we all know that the General Union would not be a tool of management. Although many unions, as you put it, "are under the direct control of the companies whose workers they are supposed to represent", the General Union is not one of them.
Sorry for needing everything spelled out, but you know me....
Now, a few other quick questions:
Pretty much all new hires in the eikaiwa industry are considered part-timers. Am I correct in saying that?
That's why teaching hours are 25 hours a week, not more....correct?
And as soon as any employees works a second more than 40 hours a week, they have to be considered full-time....correct?
Eikaiwas are inclined to insist upon saabisu zangyou (unpaid overtime) anyway....correct?
If one joins the General Union, all of the saabisu zangyou (unpaid overtime) would have to end, by law....correct?
I am asking these questions from a sincere place, as I want to make sure we provide the right answers to our studio audience. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way, if every new employee joins the General Union, every eikaiwa would have to adapt. You can't single out everybody. |
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kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| By the way, if every new employee joins the General Union, every eikaiwa would have to adapt. You can't single out everybody. |
And if all of those factory workers in Bangladesh refused to accept the horrible conditions...
In short, neither will happen. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| kpjf wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| By the way, if every new employee joins the General Union, every eikaiwa would have to adapt. You can't single out everybody. |
And if all of those factory workers in Bangladesh refused to accept the horrible conditions...
In short, neither will happen. |
Although the plight of Bengali garment workers is more serious, the morbid reality is that Western employees have a far better bargaining position.
Without the Western face, the eikaiwa industry would collapse.
You advocate fatalism! It is misguided in this case. |
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