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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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 Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Shakey wrote: |
| mitsui wrote: |
The yen is at 123 to the dollar and it is harder to save money.
I am tired of limited contracts.
The best work is at universities but it is hard to get.
Schools will have to close in the future since there will be fewer students.
I can get more money, and live in my own culture instead of being a second-class citizen. |
All good reasons to leave Japan. The TEFL industry has really declined, hasn't it. If you can make it back in the US, good for you.
I know a lot of people who hung on, maybe they hung on here a little too long. |
Problem is, going home is really hard to do. Landing a job from abroad is not easy. Also, moving countries, when established, or in my case, having kids, is a leap of faith.
I can't go back. At least not with out a solid job in hand.
But yes, TEFL here is not just declining, it is becoming less and less serious. I feel bad teaching my kids, as most do not get what they are paying for. On top of that, no one seems to care that they SHOULD be learning far more, but for a multitude of reasons, they simply aren't.
I'd say that Japan is more for a working holiday. Get here, look around, hang out, hit up other Asian countries on vacation, and then get out while you can still re establish yourself. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Jagariko wrote
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| In the future, I think MA/MSc-holding uni teachers teaching standard oral and writing classes will be paid no more than 350,000 and the higher salaries will only be paid to those that teach academic classes in English... |
Woah, that salary is lower than some private high schools offer. Can you tell us what MA holders are earning now at unis?
If it's so low, then finishing my MA is a vanity degree, not a real step up. I started an MA TESOL, but I'd rather do grad studies in something else. That means I would probably do distance ed through Athabasca Uni (Canada). |
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jkozera
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
Jagariko wrote
| Quote: |
| In the future, I think MA/MSc-holding uni teachers teaching standard oral and writing classes will be paid no more than 350,000 and the higher salaries will only be paid to those that teach academic classes in English... |
Woah, that salary is lower than some private high schools offer. Can you tell us what MA holders are earning now at unis?
If it's so low, then finishing my MA is a vanity degree, not a real step up. I started an MA TESOL, but I'd rather do grad studies in something else. That means I would probably do distance ed through Athabasca Uni (Canada). |
I have been browsing TEFL job postings and it seems ones open to people not living in the country, the pay for MA is the same as an BA/BS. I personally am hoping to avoid getting an MA as I feel that the pay increase wont compensate for the loans I would need to take out to pay for that MA |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| jkozera wrote: |
| I have been browsing TEFL job postings and it seems ones open to people not living in the country, the pay for MA is the same as an BA/BS. I personally am hoping to avoid getting an MA as I feel that the pay increase wont compensate for the loans I would need to take out to pay for that MA |
An MA isn't worth it for getting a pay bump at the same kinds of jobs you could get with just a BA, but it is for getting a job that one couldn't get with just a BA. Most advertised full-time university positions do not require one to already live in the country.
Also, if you can get a graduate assistantship, you can do an MA in TESOL for free or nearly free in the US. Universities that have an intensive ESL program will often offer a number of assistantships, usually to people who already have some ESL/EFL teaching experience. |
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jkozera
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
| jkozera wrote: |
| I have been browsing TEFL job postings and it seems ones open to people not living in the country, the pay for MA is the same as an BA/BS. I personally am hoping to avoid getting an MA as I feel that the pay increase wont compensate for the loans I would need to take out to pay for that MA |
An MA isn't worth it for getting a pay bump at the same kinds of jobs you could get with just a BA, but it is for getting a job that one couldn't get with just a BA. Most advertised full-time university positions do not require one to already live in the country.
Also, if you can get a graduate assistantship, you can do an MA in TESOL for free or nearly free in the US. Universities that have an intensive ESL program will often offer a number of assistantships, usually to people who already have some ESL/EFL teaching experience. |
well, honestly I would not want an MA in TESOL since I have the TESL cert which is the same course work as people do in the MA program. I would rather get an MA in education but besides the point. I wouldn't mind getting my foot in the door somewhere and work my way up, if one can even do that anymore |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you really think a certificate is the same as an MA in the subject? If this were the case, why didn't you receive an MA upon completion? |
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jkozera
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| Do you really think a certificate is the same as an MA in the subject? If this were the case, why didn't you receive an MA upon completion? |
at my uni, the MA students are in the same classes as the BA students. The only difference is that their classes are labeled LING 507 vs my classes are LING 407. They pay more per credit, gotta pass with a 3.0 and have a little more work per class than the BS students.
example: For my syntax course, we all have the same tests and homework, the MA students had to create a pod cast explaining a concept of x-theory.
If I already had a BA and had the money, sure I would get an MA but I don't care enough about theories nor publishing research that only a handful of people actually care about. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe a different institution might be in order? |
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jrwhisky
Joined: 07 Jul 2013
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Tokyoliz, that's a super cool set up! I'm all for changing with the times. More tourists means more oppertunities for tourist based businesses. Great time to jump in that market. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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jrwhisky, are you referring to my martial arts guest house? It's a lot of fun, and I'm supported by the neighbors and the landlady who are so happy I am gardening and keeping the house in great shape.
There is so much opportunity here to occupy aging houses that would otherwise be empty and decaying, and hosting visitors from abroad. My rate is much lower than a hostel or hotel, I provide breakfast, snacks and drinks, and be host mum. Even at a low rate, my guests cover the rent almost every month. And it's fun! |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
Jagariko wrote
| Quote: |
| In the future, I think MA/MSc-holding uni teachers teaching standard oral and writing classes will be paid no more than 350,000 and the higher salaries will only be paid to those that teach academic classes in English... |
Woah, that salary is lower than some private high schools offer. Can you tell us what MA holders are earning now at unis?
If it's so low, then finishing my MA is a vanity degree, not a real step up. I started an MA TESOL, but I'd rather do grad studies in something else. That means I would probably do distance ed through Athabasca Uni (Canada). |
I think it might be a step-up only in salary, especially if the benefits keep reeling back. I've not heard much positive said about the actual work going into a university position.
The idea of being on double the salary and so on obviously sounds very good but you dont hear a lot of raving about how satisfying the work is.
Having read quite a lot of academic papers recently and working on some little academic projects myself, Im not sure I would greatly enjoy it, definitely not in the same way as I do plain teaching (sometimes). Those journals man - I counted more than 60 references on one! The JALT claims it only accepts 5% of work submitted.
What do people think? Does it seem like quite a few seem just relieved they can say they are a professor rather than an English teacher? I've wondered.
If you are the more academic-type then fair play, but I don't know if it'd suit me so much |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: |
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So many seem ashamed to say they teach English.
They want to look down on others.
I went back to high school teaching. I worked at universities for six years
and read a lot of garbage articles.
It is the same in America. My father is a professor of American history in Vermont.
He said most research is bull"#$%.
The goal is just to get published and BS at conferences, not to write any quality. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
So many seem ashamed to say they teach English.
They want to look down on others.
I went back to high school teaching. I worked at universities for six years
and read a lot of garbage articles.
It is the same in America. My father is a professor of American history in Vermont.
He said most research is bull"#$%.
The goal is just to get published and BS at conferences, not to write any quality. |
Well Ive read some alright stuff too I suppose. Just seems like it's the only golden path. Ive been studying with some semi-famous people (edit- by this I mean they have a lot of Twitter followers and speak ar conferences lol)and it seems like it's more of a path for a certain kind of person. A lot of people seem to turn their back on anything too heavily academic, outside of Japan at least.
Research is interesting to read but learning and language-learning being what it is, it doesnt seem like a good idea to read too much. Give me practical ideas everytime dude |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| jkozera wrote: |
| well, honestly I would not want an MA in TESOL since I have the TESL cert which is the same course work as people do in the MA program. I would rather get an MA in education but besides the point. I wouldn't mind getting my foot in the door somewhere and work my way up, if one can even do that anymore |
It sounds like your university has the kind of MA TESOL program that is just tacked on to an existing undergrad program in order to make money by putting more students (especially higher-paying international students) into seats. I would definitely not recommend such a program, as what you'll learn is not really beyond BA level.
Unlike work in companies, "working your way up" in many education contexts involves not just experience but also additional qualifications. Just something to keep in mind if you make a career out of this.
| RM1983 wrote: |
| Research is interesting to read but learning and language-learning being what it is, it doesnt seem like a good idea to read too much. |
I'm curious what you mean by "language learning being what it is" -- are you implying that language learning is so straightforward that it's not worth researching? |
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Shakey
Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
So many seem ashamed to say they teach English.
They want to look down on others.
I went back to high school teaching. I worked at universities for six years
and read a lot of garbage articles.
It is the same in America. My father is a professor of American history in Vermont.
He said most research is bull"#$%.
The goal is just to get published and BS at conferences, not to write any quality. |
Much of it is self-promotion. That, and many of the topics you see at conferences like JALT or TESOL get re-cycled from year-to-year. Nothing new is ever introduced.
Let's be realistic here, none of the TESOL research is groundbreaking or even original. Unless we are talking about the complex field of neurolinguistics, everything else is just re-hashed and re-cycled, e.g., "This is how I used video in my classroom" or "How I implemented extensive reading in a 1st year university English course." It's mainly, "This is what I did in my classroom."
Besides, all of the really important work in education, psychology, etc. was mainly produced in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. Those fields are not like Chemistry, Physics, etc., that are constantly progressing and making new findings.
No, I would never tell anyone that I teach English. I am too ashamed to admit that I'm an English teacher. I usually tell people that I'm in sales, and leave it at that.
I wouldn't want anybody to know. |
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