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kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
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 Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: How many years does it generally take? |
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| Snuff wrote: |
That being said, the school is completely different to the Eikaiwa, and the first week in I floundered. My classroom management was ropey, and I just felt disorientated. |
For classroom management I would recommend reading some books by the Australian author Bill Rogers. I am currently reading You Know the Fair Rule: Strategies for Positive and Effective Behaviour Management and Discipline in Schools which is really useful (at least for me). One thing the author rightly says is that even though most teachers plan lessons (obviously), they don't consider the same for classroom management/discipline planning.
I see on Amazon this author actually has some books specifically related to young children, which may be more relevant in your case.
Anyway, it's great that you have colleague support and surely you just need a bit of time before settling in to the job. |
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Nicky_McG
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Snuff wrote: |
Thanks for the words of advice.  I'm sorry if I don't respond to everyone, but I have taken on board what has been said, and I really appreciate the input.
| nomad soul wrote: |
It usually takes about two years --- some teachers sooner while others a bit longer. However, training and education are a huge factor. In your case, you don't have the specific qualifications for teaching children. That's not a put down, but it's one of the reasons your confidence is low. Plus, you're in a new and very different culture and teaching context, which requires adjustment.
Give it some time. You're fortunate to be getting support. |
That wasn't taken as a put down, and you're quite right. I think it's strange how two of the most recognised TEFL certificates focus entirely on teaching adults, when a significant portion of the market seems to be teaching younger learners. There aren't many language schools that only teach adults. If I plan on sticking with kiddies in the future, I'll invest in a CETYL.
| spiral78 wrote: |
It's pretty well known that the transition from Asia to Europe is difficult for many teachers. You're not atypical, don't worry!
There is a thread on this that might help a bit, though it's not really about teaching kiddies. Uncharted territory, to some degree! But the status issues will be applicable, as will much of the stuff regarding student motivation and expectations, though in your case the expectations are more likely to come from fellow staff and parents.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=95456&start=0 |
Thank you! I went through that thread a couple months back, when I decided to head to Europe. Who'd have thought the difference could start from younger learners?  With the parents, I've actually noticed an improvement in attitude. I've had a chat with one or two of them, and for them it was more about exposing their children to a native speaker for a more natural way of learning. Unlike the Japanese parents who expected their three-year-old to be fluent ASAP after 40 minutes a week of lessons.
| Nicky_MG wrote: |
| I don't think it's necessarily about finding your stride as a teacher rather than adapting to a new environment. I'd been teaching for four years before I started working in French Higher education. I really struggled for a year or two to adapt to the fact that French university students can behave as badly as high school students, if you let them. I wasn't ready for that and as this kind of behaviour is so normalised, nobody thought to warn me. Most of my colleagues had a similar experience. The schools I work for don't really have much of a policy on behaviour and I realise that sending students to see my immediate superior would not solve anything. If you've lost control of a class, and there are very few consequences for bad behaviour, it can be difficult. Thankfully, that doesn't sound like it's the case for you so you're in a much better position than me in that respect. I eventually got used to better classroom management (though,admittedly some of my methods of managing a classroom are perhaps unorthodox) |
Unorthodox methods? Did you click-and-treat whenever they'd stop talking and look at you?  Or were you more into negative reinforcement (shock collars)?
Thanks for sharing your experience. It's reassuring to know more experienced teachers have had their share of problems with classroom management. In my case, the other native teacher still has problems managing her classes.
@The flounder discussion: My plan is to change tack and head for shore, before any foundering takes place! |
Unorthodox in the sense that I need to find a way to control them while still remembering that they'll be leaving me feedback at the end of the year (personally, I disagree about the feedback and know some teachers are so terrified of it that they'll let the class do whatever they want). I'd share what I do but none of it would work with children!
I remember at high school that we had a teacher who was unable to control the class. I'm ashamed to say we did take advantage of this sometimes. The mistake she made was to punish people with things that weren't even punishments (I remember her abandoning debates that we didn't care about doing anyway, for example). The worst that would happen would be that she'd keep a student back and lecture them for 10 minutes. What she should have done is sent one of us her superior who would have called our parents. If the punishment doesn't worry the student then they'll do whatever they want. |
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Nemu_Yoake
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 47
Location: Iwate
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| Nicky_McG wrote: |
| I don't think it's necessarily about finding your stride as a teacher rather than adapting to a new environment. I'd been teaching for four years before I started working in French Higher education. I really struggled for a year or two to adapt to the fact that French university students can behave as badly as high school students, if you let them. I wasn't ready for that and as this kind of behaviour is so normalised, nobody thought to warn me. Most of my colleagues had a similar experience. The schools I work for don't really have much of a policy on behaviour and I realise that sending students to see my immediate superior would not solve anything. If you've lost control of a class, and there are very few consequences for bad behaviour, it can be difficult. Thankfully, that doesn't sound like it's the case for you so you're in a much better position than me in that respect. I eventually got used to better classroom management (though,admittedly some of my methods of managing a classroom are perhaps unorthodox) |
That's exactly why I don't want to work in France. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Nemu_Yoake wrote: |
That's exactly why I don't want to work in France. |
My uni students in France weren't that bad in terms of behaviour. The secondary school ones, yes, but not so much the uni ones. The worst ones were probably my law students (many were arrogant and superior acting), but, I don't know if this is the norm regarding behaviour in French universities "Nicky_McG? |
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Nicky_McG
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah but the key is that at private universities they"re forced to come to class. Not all classes are bad by the way. Just some, occasionally. I agree that law students are the worst, though. |
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Nemu_Yoake
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 47
Location: Iwate
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| kpjf wrote: |
| Nemu_Yoake wrote: |
That's exactly why I don't want to work in France. |
My uni students in France weren't that bad in terms of behaviour. The secondary school ones, yes, but not so much the uni ones. The worst ones were probably my law students (many were arrogant and superior acting), but, I don't know if this is the norm regarding behaviour in French universities "Nicky_McG? |
Kidding, kidding. I'm French and wanted to do some French bashing, that's all.  They're not that bad, that's true. I was one of them, once. |
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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Hi Snuff,
We're similar in a lot of ways (UK, similar age, BA, CELTA / Trinity, 2nd year teaching), and it took me maybe 2 or 3 months to get really, fully comfortable teaching in a private centre during my first year. Then I moved to a university this year, and I'm having to adjust all over again. I think it has a lot to do with the change in environment, city, and simply just your daily routines. You just get comfortable. Get your house in order, and all that. Also, having to build that vital local support network all over again. It'll come.
I'd go on, but I work in China, so for some here on the general boards, my opinion on anything teaching-related is essentially worthless . |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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TYLEC |
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D. Amokachi
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Anyone know why they are discontinuing the YL stuff? |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| I suspect there wasn't the same demand for it (from the trainees I mean), even for the YL extension rather than the full cert, as there is for the CELTA, as most teachers would probably prefer (given the choice) to teach adults, and don't want (unless push comes to shove) to appear to be YL "specialists". It'll be interesting to see how long Trinity and the BC continue to offer the TYLEC that Bograt mentioned. |
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Snuff
Joined: 07 Feb 2015
Posts: 10
Location: Prague
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Hmm. I was under the impression that the demand for teachers for YL - in Europe, at least - was on the increase, with ESP/Business squashing 'General English' to adults. The CELTA and Trinity focus on General, with a brief introduction to the former.
Don't get me wrong - I'm one of those who would rather teach adults. But if you look at the job ads on TEFL.com, finding a language school that only teaches adults is hard to find. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Snuff wrote: |
I was under the impression that the demand for teachers for YL - in Europe, at least - was on the increase, with ESP/Business squashing 'General English' to adults. The CELTA and Trinity focus on General, with a brief introduction to the former.
Don't get me wrong - I'm one of those who would rather teach adults. But if you look at the job ads on TEFL.com, finding a language school that only teaches adults is hard to find. |
Best to post this over on the Europe forums for more visibility and thus, more responses. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| @Snuff: Well, potential trainees may not be looking at the job ads too closely, and what could UCLES do, force people to take (sniff? ROFL!) their YL rather than A stuff? The "important" thing is probably just that at least some form of training's taken, and the way that Business if not ESP tends to operate in at least the marketplace if not in unis is that quite often just "general" teachers bone up on the necessary and teach it even if they don't have direct experience of the matters underlying the linguistic content. Doubtless similar make-do arrangements happen with teaching YLs. |
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bradyvictor86
Joined: 17 Sep 2015
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| johnslat wrote: |
"To flounder is (1) to struggle or move with difficulty, as in mud; or (2) to behave awkwardly or make mistakes. One who flounders does not fail completely but merely struggles. To founder is (1) to cave in, (2) to sink below the water, (3) to fail utterly, or (4) to go lame. While to flounder is merely to struggle, foundering usually involves utter failure."
Regards,
John |
Thanks, John.
I foundered with that correction, huh? |
But that link is not working at my side and getting error, is there any other way to see your web 
Last edited by bradyvictor86 on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
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